Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Feb 04, 2011 11:14 am Hi I have a piece of land in a new esate , with no easement , got plans made up , got a builder , got finance , lodged plans , plans approved , block cut by the builder , retaining wall workmen then dig and find a sewer pipe in my back yard 45 cms down, now it looks like there should have been an easement of 4.5 mtr no build zone in my back yard from the rear fence [my plans to build is 1.6m from back fence to back wall of house] . To make it worse the aggregate around the sewer pipe is creating an excessive amount of water on my block now. builder likely cant build on this block due to excessive ground water [caused by sewer pipe backfill when sewer was put in]. Still no word from council after 1 week after their inspection. Looks like 1. Cant build my house due to council sewer pipe 2. finance will be cancelled due to different house now has to be constructed 3. $8000 dollar retaining wall will have to be dug out or maybe left in , but likley to crack at sewer pipe crossover 4. my property value is now 15% less due to less buildable area 5. stressed wifey and i have moved interstate to be close to construction , driving lots for this build , changed jobs for this build , bought a big block with no easements to suit a big home to suit our family life , but now cant a big enough home without going another $60000 or more for a 2 storey home. all because 1. Council plans dont show sewer pipe or easement in any searches or plans Wondering if A. Has anyone ever filed a law case against a council B. What is my chances of being successfull Positiive replys most welcome , but give me the truth cheers noremac Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 2Feb 04, 2011 11:24 am I think the first thing you need to do is to seek legal advice from a lawyer, they will be able to answer any questions you have. Providing you can prove that the council legitimately made a mistake in the details of the easement (or in your case, no easement at all) then you will probably have a case. But expect an uphill battle, you will be fighting against a council, who can afford good lawyers. It will be expensive and may not actually be worth it. I think that all you will end up with is the council rectifying the land title and you having to change your plans. You may get reimbursed for your retaining wall expenses but that is probably as far as it will go. Talk to a lawyer, but you may find that all the expense and stress may be for little resolve. I wish you all the luck though and would love to be kept posted on how this pans out for you. Current status: Busy making the house our home Built PD Francis 29 on our 576m2 block at Reflections in Tarneit Reflections Estate Thread Our Build Thread Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 3Feb 04, 2011 11:59 am I think you will find that this is going to be one of those "we can't be held responsible because the person who put the sewer there put it in the wrong spot" type cases. Honestly, you won't win this case. You may be granted permission to use an alternate type of wall, such as batter if it can be positioned at a suitable spot to still hold the soil and have enough depth to protect the sewer. This may not however allow you to keep the house in your desired position? Is this a subdivided block? I'm wondering why you would choose to build so far back unless you want to have an enclosed front yard. One thing is for sure, you won't get any money because of the perception that your block is worth less now. The value of property is subject to market perception and fluctuates on many different variables. Rather than suing the council, you'll be better of working with them to get to a suitable arrangement to move forward. GLGLGL Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 4Feb 04, 2011 12:05 pm I'm so sorry to hear about that. It is terrible when you think you have done all the due diligence when buying a property and then get stung like that. Is the council responsible for sewer easements or the water authority in your state. I know here in WA you need to apply to water corp for sewer easements. Hope you can sort something out, though I tend to agree with Wizard, you could be pushing up hill all the way. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 5Feb 04, 2011 4:59 pm I have worked in the water industry for over 30 years and have never heard of anyone successfully suing a council or water authority in this situation. ( in my experience most lawyers know less about sewerage and drainage law than the Water Authority engineers.) Although it is normal to have an easement in the past formal easements wern't always created. Sometimes if it was to the advantage of the landowner to have a sewer for his property he may have not required the creation of an easement. You can talk with the council/water authority about either building over the sewer which is possible in certain circumstances or diverting the sewer around your building. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 7Feb 04, 2011 6:29 pm A similar thing has just happened to my nan recently. She is building at munno para west (sa). Iam a little sketchy on the details. Went through all the usual process. Started digging the footings and hit a pipe. There was no reference for it anywhere. She went and seen a lawyer who started negotiating on her behalf. In the meantime it someone found it on the plan. It turns out the developer put it in the wrong place and not deep enough. It was a stormwater pipe from memory. She ended up getting compensation. She got rent X the amount of weeks her building was delayed, plus a little bit more for another reason I'm not sure of and lawyers fees. The developer had to move the pipe as well. It was a hassle for her and it took a few months but in the end she won. I think her footings were done in the last week or so. Hope that helps. Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 8Feb 04, 2011 9:25 pm personally I dont like your chances of suing council. Im confused though, if the sewer pipe runs along the back fence that is standard, so..... where did you think your sewerage and waste water was going to go? there's only two options that I know of, sewer pipe or septic tank, and I would think a septic tank + leach tank or leach drain system would take up far more space than a sewer line along the back fence. You can't build a house without some type of sewerage/waste water system and your builder would know this. Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 9Feb 04, 2011 10:04 pm piscean personally I dont like your chances of suing council. Im confused though, if the sewer pipe runs along the back fence that is standard, so..... where did you think your sewerage and waste water was going to go? there's only two options that I know of, sewer pipe or septic tank, and I would think a septic tank + leach tank or leach drain system would take up far more space than a sewer line along the back fence. You can't build a house without some type of sewerage/waste water system and your builder would know this. Only about 40% of blocks have a sewer in them. In the other 60% the sewer is in the adjoining block, reserve, or even in the road. here is a bit more information on easements http://www.anewhouse.com.au/?p=409 The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 10Feb 04, 2011 10:40 pm I dont't know where the op is. here in perth the watercorp usually runs the sewer line between the blocks along the back fence, even if the sewer is on the neighbours block, it still needs an easement from where the pipe is, but the point is: why did no one question where the sewerage line was before the plans were drawn up and submitted? there has to be one so if it isnt on the plan, then why isnt anyone especially the builder asking themselves where the sewerage line is Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 11Feb 05, 2011 12:08 am in my experience most people don't understand title plans or think about sewerage pipes The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 12Feb 05, 2011 10:54 pm In Perth you don't have an easement on individual service lines as technically you own them and are responsible for their maintenance. As someone form water corp told me "you can build over the top of it as far as we are concerned. Just makes servicing hard". You do have easements on sewer mains so water corp can access if needing to carry out service. The OP is obviously not talking about their own service line as they would know where that is. If it is a sewer line that runs through the property that requires an easement then obviously someone was aware of it's presence (unless it is not where it should be). When ever I have looked at purchasing property I've given water corp a call and they will email you the e-plan of the sewer network for the block or area you are looking at. If you are buying an existing house you can pay for a flimsy which shows the as constructed detail of all plumbing connections that join into the main sewer. Between the two of them you should have a pretty comprehensive idea of what runs where on any given piece of land. edit: @bashworth, I notice you are a water engineer so I guess you know all that Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 13Feb 05, 2011 11:22 pm Thank you chippy you explained it much better than me. Bashworth when the OP said the pipe was running along the back fence and had an easement, I assumed they were talking about the mains sewer line so I was a bit confused why the personal connection part of the line came up because I dont think that's what the op was talking about. Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 14Feb 06, 2011 6:44 am Hi I don't have much experience of what happens in Perth but for most of Australia for new estates the sewers(pipes serving more than one property) will usually run along a fence in an easement. The pipes serving individual properties that go under the fence don't have separate easements. Typically problems occur when blocks are subdivided from previously semi rural areas where there were large properties that were sewered. In these cases the most direct route for sewers (and individual property connections) was chosen. If the pipe is a individual connection on the property it didn't need an easement. (owners don't have easements in favour of themselves. There will be no official record of these sewers. If the pipe was a sewer often owners have agreed they don't need an easement to save the council money and make sure they get a sewer connection The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 15Feb 06, 2011 7:46 am I would have thought this would be an issue to take up with the water co, not council. A thankful person is a happy person. [/color]My hobby design blog: http://aviewondesign.blogspot.com/ Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 16Feb 06, 2011 8:12 am Haven't read all your replies,could there be an easement on neighbours side?.Look like a big bobo,I would take others H1 advice in not taking legal action.When I have had to deal with council, I found I got a better outcome by aways being pleasant.Not always easy,goodluck Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 17Feb 06, 2011 10:31 am Hmmm, I think someone needs to be responsible. The fact that finance has been approved, council approval etc and now the block may not be able to be built on due to excess water... hello, how is that the problem of the owner. I understand that it will be hard to sue, but I would be wanting compensation too. I don't know where that should come from, but the council, developers, builders should of known all of this! Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 18Feb 08, 2011 12:23 am I'm not sure how it is elsewhere, but here in Perth the Water Corp is responsible for sewer plans, not the council. But 45cm down??? That is very shallow. That is the developer's fault. It is also their fault for not showing the sewer on the sketch of the block they sold you. If you are to sue anyone, it's the developer. But also - this should have been picked up by the builder and their surveyor as well. The surveyor should be looking for the sewer invert and sewer run, and the builder should be drawing a plumbing plan that connects to the sewer invert. Be aware also that councils are government organizations and their rules, responsibilites etc. are very clearly set out in legislation. It would be a very difficult thing to sue a council. The most likely option, I think, would probably be for them to redirect the sewer run to the back of your property, replace the fill on your block with compacted clean fill and compensate you for time lost and costs incurred. Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 19Feb 08, 2011 9:51 am Has anybody asked if it was 45cm pre or post cut? Its says they cut the block. Did they cut over area where the sewer pipe has been found? If so does this mean you need to add 45cm + depth of cut? Re: sueing council , any suggestions or experience at this? 20Feb 10, 2011 8:46 pm Thank you to everyone for chipping in with replies. Looks like the common thread in this dicussion is 1. Sueing coucil/water board is not a worth while option. Perhaps then the developer who submitted the plans for the subdivision and made the subdivision is liable for not disclosing/finding the older sewer pipe [15 years old is the old sewer, block is 3 years old , but the developer is releasing the last stage of the estate right now]? As it turns out , my designated sewer connection is to the front of my block , so I have access to two. [lucky me] Seems too the sewer pipe [the one that is the problem] was correctly placed at 1m below surface , then , with council approved plans , my builder cut the block down 60cm , then with my approved retaining wall plans , my retaining wall workers uncovered the last 40cms to reveal the pipe [ which revealed the source of the water problems on my block being the sewer pipe rock/rumble surrounding it]. Seems too , the builders engineering slab design company are coming to have a loook and retest to see if they can build near water at 30cm below the new ground level [near the sewer pipe only]. Glad too hear though someone was successful at litigation taken , so , I wont rule it out , though , it does sound like a really hard thing to do considering the stress and time factor involved. Hopefully I should know more by next week .... sometime. ciao Hi All, I have been dealing with icare for insurance in completing our house after our original builder went bust. We have gotten to tender stage and one of the companies… 0 20745 I apologise for any confusion, but your understanding is correct. We approached our situation differently based on advice from… 11 53104 11 40636 |