Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Frames, Timber or Steel ?? 21Jun 08, 2017 5:16 pm I'm really not sure, sorry. The picture does look to have more solid noggins than ours but I would be very surprised if they didn't have holes for services to be passed through. I have never seen a green coloured steel frame, down here they all seem to be bluescope. If your builder is telling you that, they could be trying to sway you into doing stuff through them or the consultant just might know what they are talking about. Will you be putting in provision for any of this through the builder? Depending on location, things like facade lights could be tricky afterwards. I would talk to the trades that you want to do things after handover with, see if they have a problem with steel frame. And try and find the hybrid frame under construction so you can see it for yourself. Re: Frames, Timber or Steel ?? 22Jun 08, 2017 10:57 pm bank I'm really not sure, sorry. The picture does look to have more solid noggins than ours but I would be very surprised if they didn't have holes for services to be passed through. I have never seen a green coloured steel frame, down here they all seem to be bluescope. If your builder is telling you that, they could be trying to sway you into doing stuff through them or the consultant just might know what they are talking about. Will you be putting in provision for any of this through the builder? Depending on location, things like facade lights could be tricky afterwards. I would talk to the trades that you want to do things after handover with, see if they have a problem with steel frame. And try and find the hybrid frame under construction so you can see it for yourself. Thank you bank, I called the consultant and asked further details. She said anything on the cavity wall would be impossible (I don't know why it's impossible, I understand it will be difficult!) however downlights are OK as I've got the battens placed at the right spot during my electrical appointment. I also got all the power points I need and TV provisions I need during my appointment so that's all good as well. So the potential issues would be - 1. Control panel that will go on the wall for ducted AC 2. Door bell / Intercom panel which will again go on the wall I'm not sure if it's impossible really. I did speak to AC guys and a couple of electricians. AC - no problem is what I heard. Electricians prefer working on timber however they said they can work on Steel as well and it's a bit hard but doable. So looks like Steel is OK however I've asked my friend to double check with another electrical consultant of the same builder during his appointment tomorrow - see how I go.. Re: Frames, Timber or Steel ?? 23Jun 09, 2017 6:36 am qebtel ddarroch Timber is WAY more sustainable. If sourced correctly, it is a carbon sink, actually extracting carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere. Steel emits A LOT of CO2 during it's manufacture. Then again, it depends on what your definition of sustainable is. Theoretically a steel frame should last a millenium, whereas wood frames can burn down, by eaten by termites, sag, etc, thus requiring demolition and rebuilding. Not so with steel. But how many of our houses will be standing in a thousand years? The answer is none. Nothing to do with durability. Everything to do with technological advancements, & fashion. How many perfectly durable brick houses do we tear down? Not because they're falling down, just because we don't like them. We don't tear down our timber framed houses because they're falling down, we tear them down because we want something new. If we want to build houses that last forever we should build in concrete, an extremely durable material (that is also extremely bad for the environment). But it's not about that. It's about designing for an appropriate life cycle, not over designing. A well maintained timber house will survive for hundreds of years, more than enough! qebtel ddarroch A steel frame is thermally inefficient. Steel is a very high conductor of heat. This means in summertime heat can bypass the insulation, heating the house. This is called thermal bridging, & must be taken into account during the design stage. Dont follow that logic. A wood frame bypasses insulation in the same way and will conduct heat as well, but less efficiently as you state. But the rub is that on a very hot day, such as we experience so often now in these heatwaves every summer, timber actually soaks up and retains the heat well into the night, requiring you to use air con to cool your house down. Again, in that respect it is not so sustainable Yes, just like metal, a timber frame bridges your insulation. The difference is timber is an insulator (though not as good as your insulation), so the thermal bridging is minimal. On the other hand, metal is an extremely good conductor. Meaning thermal bridging can be extreme, & must be designed for. As for your other point, sorry that's just not true. Metal cools quickly, not only because it's a good conductor of heat, but also because it has low thermal mass. Thermal mass is the ability of a material to store heat. So metal doesn't store much heat. But timber also has low thermal mass. Not only will it resist the flow of heat (it's an insulator), but just like metal it won't store much heat (it has low thermal mass). So there's no way a timber frame will be retaining heat well into the night, it just doesn't store heat. The materials we have to watch out for here are brick & concrete. They have very high thermal mass. They absorb a lot of heat throughout the day, releasing it slowly throughout the night. Making them a poor choice for cladding. qebtel ddarroch Timber is an appropriate material for a houses frame. The frame is inside the building envelope, protected from the environment. There's timber framed houses that have stood for hundreds of years. It just needs to be treated in termite areas. Timber is also cheaper, so why would you bother with steel? Steel or timber, they are both inside the build envelope. Timber may not be cheaper in the long run if you have to annually pay for termite treatments. In my opinion, steel frames are easier to assemble and fix onsite than timber frames, particularly for a novice or unskilled builder. So there are some answer to your question as to why you would use steel. True, like timber, a metal frame is protected from the environment. I'm wasn't saying that it isn't. What I'm saying is why over design? Why choose metal, that is more costly, worse for the environment, & thermally inefficient. It's durability isn't required. Timber is durable enough, will last for hundreds of years, more than the life cycle of a house. Timber is much cheaper (even when treated), & much better for the environment. Why are steel frames easier to deal with, because they are prefabricated. But timber frames can be prefabricated too. I can't wait until, like overseas, we move towards more prefabrication of homes. Timber frames can be prefabricated, with much less waste than when they are formed on site, & with lower tolerances. Making our houses much more air tight, improving their thermal performance. Re: Frames, Timber or Steel ?? 24Apr 27, 2018 7:24 pm Hey Voz, I'm looking for some feedback. What you ended up going, hybrid? I'm actually getting the same offer from Eden Brae and checking whether you ran into any issues? Do you've any other electrical issue like control panels on the wall? Re: Frames, Timber or Steel ?? 26Oct 15, 2019 9:05 pm fredinver We are just in the final stages of a owner built steel frame house. I used to work in the timber industry and have built in timber in the past. Pros of steel, frames and trusses are light and straight to work with. Termites etc as others have said. Cons some tradies don't like/or are used to working with steel. Screwing can be a problem and slower than a nail guns. I have had some screws strip the thread or frames hole. Screws are more expensive than nails. Some extra mounting plates are required for TV mounts etc. I would owner build in steel again. You built with a steel frame? Was this a single story or 2-story house? I heard that steel framed 2-story homes are noisy when walking on the upper floor? Re: Frames, Timber or Steel ?? 27Oct 30, 2019 11:47 pm ramprasa Hey Voz, I'm looking for some feedback. What you ended up going, hybrid? I'm actually getting the same offer from Eden Brae and checking whether you ran into any issues? Do you've any other electrical issue like control panels on the wall? Sorry, I didn't login for a long time after my build was done. I got hybrid and happy with it. That sucks! Hope it all works out. Good to move away from steel anyway for all your reasons, but it's also thermally poor. 16 17895 Hi I am wanting some opinions about the build of a steel shed I am going to get one about 4.5 x 2.5 m steel shed and the height will be about 2.3-2.4m high The one I am… 0 14458 This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating 8 8052 |