Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Jan 04, 2011 7:06 pm Hey guys, I've been reading through the ducted Vacuum threads here and have been skimming good info. H1 is a great recource yeah? I've found a lot of info this way. My wife and I are about to buy new carpet for the house. Big $$$$! To help protect our investment I'm going to install a ducted vac system (use to have one years ago and loved it). I read here that aggitation is required for the *most effective* cleaning of your carpet and not just suction. Advice from here was to make sure your ducted system had enough (suction) power to run a non-electric power head (like the Turbocat). No problem, I don't want to do things by halves and it won't be underpowered! I always wondered though, if you can have too much suction in your vac system... Anyway, Vac unit choice. I see different models with different 'air flow' and 'pressure' ratings (or Air watt ratings which combine the two) and depending of length and efficiency of design of the piping there will be a reduction of this suction. Where do you begin to nut out the power needed for your unit? Is bigger always safer? Can I go too big? I'll be needing 2 points upstairs and 1point downstairs with a 9 meter hose. The vac system would actually be under the middle of the house (It's a sloping block and I can walk into the guts of the house very easily). The points therefore would not be too far from the vac unit below. I imagine I would be using less piping than single story house where the piping has to span the length of the house. Really,I guess I need to know what sort of pressure i need at the end of the hose and work backwards from there, yes? Are there industry standards to be guided by with regards to MMHG at the nozzle end? Also, is it an issue for the exhaust to point under the house, in my case towards the upper part of my under-house section(where there is only 2ft of space)? Most people have the unit in their garage so i assume that this is not a problem. Can anybody help me begin to unravel this carpet and vac business? Cheers, HC Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 2Jan 04, 2011 8:20 pm I cant help with the technical stuff... but during my research I found Alan at Electron Home Innovations the most competitively priced and excellent at providing us with information on various aspects of things. We bought a DIY kit from him for a Hide-A-Hose system. Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 3Jan 04, 2011 8:43 pm Thanks bam. I'll tuck that up my sleeve and use it if I need. ... and your hide a hose system? Happy with it? I read about that only today and was impressed. I wondered if it was for a single point system only or whether you can take the house out from storage and move it to another point. Cheers. HC Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 4Jan 04, 2011 9:07 pm Each point has its own hose. You can mix the Hide a hose with a regular system too - so have a hide a hose in the main area and normal outlets elsewhere. It just means that the hide a hose will have its own hose, and the other points will have a hose like normal that you can attach. We got 3 hide a hose inlets (12m), wand and tools set, wireless handle with receiver (so you can turn the system on and off from the vacuum wand itself), a garage caddy with Hose and accessories, a turbo head for carpet, a horsehair attachment thing for floorboards and the most powerful motor they had for just over $4k - other quotes were $6k without accessories We havent installed ours yet, will be done in about a month. But they have displays that you can test - one at the Home Innovtions Display Centre or at their factory in Scoresby Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 5Jan 04, 2011 9:21 pm Awesome! You'll have yours before I even start mine. I'll watch out for your victory post. Scorsby is within striking distance. I'll head on down. Cheers. Anybody else got any tasty hard data on ducted systems for me? Cheers, HC Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 6Jan 04, 2011 10:07 pm heat_crime Hey guys, I've been reading through the ducted Vacuum threads here and have been skimming good info. H1 is a great recource yeah? I've found a lot of info this way. My wife and I are about to buy new carpet for the house. Big $$$$! To help protect our investment I'm going to install a ducted vac system (use to have one years ago and loved it). I read here that aggitation is required for the *most effective* cleaning of your carpet and not just suction. Advice from here was to make sure your ducted system had enough (suction) power to run a non-electric power head (like the Turbocat). No problem, I don't want to do things by halves and it won't be underpowered! I always wondered though, if you can have too much suction in your vac system... Yes you can have too much suction, it simply isn't necessary to go over the top if you got a very overpowered unit you may have trouble using the system - under powered would probably feel like a regular pull-a-long system. If you are installing pure wool carpet do not use your turbocat every time you vac, the lack of nylon in the weave can tend to rip out the wool somewhat so we recommend using it every third time to to keep it clean Anyway, Vac unit choice. I see different models with different 'air flow' and 'pressure' ratings (or Air watt ratings which combine the two) and depending of length and efficiency of design of the piping there will be a reduction of this suction. Where do you begin to nut out the power needed for your unit? Is bigger always safer? Can I go too big? Once again yes you can go too big, the units are suggested to suit the amount of pipe you have and the lift you require etc. I'll be needing 2 points upstairs and 1point downstairs with a 9 meter hose. The vac system would actually be under the middle of the house (It's a sloping block and I can walk into the guts of the house very easily). The points therefore would not be too far from the vac unit below. I imagine I would be using less piping than single story house where the piping has to span the length of the house. If you are looking at DIY it would be about $900 all up for a basic system but including the 'correct' machine Really,I guess I need to know what sort of pressure i need at the end of the hose and work backwards from there, yes? Are there industry standards to be guided by with regards to MMHG at the nozzle end? Also, is it an issue for the exhaust to point under the house, in my case towards the upper part of my under-house section(where there is only 2ft of space)? Most people have the unit in their garage so i assume that this is not a problem. No issue but allow space to remove the bag (if you have one) generally an area 600x600x1500 is sufficient Garage installation takes advantage of the point on the machine for cleaning cars - I couldn't do that myself as the garage is too far a way from the house so I have a separate system installed and about to add 2 'spot by vroom' inlets. No feedback on them as yet. Can anybody help me begin to unravel this carpet and vac business? Yes the place I work at located in Knoxfield We are not competitive in the hide a hose systems, so if you are interested in that system give us a miss however, we've had negative reports about the system (dirty & ripped hose socks are starting to be a problem), installation needs to be done precisely however do consider a VacuSweep in your plans - good luck! Cheers, HC Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 7Jan 04, 2011 10:27 pm Bam Each point has its own hose. You can mix the Hide a hose with a regular system too - so have a hide a hose in the main area and normal outlets elsewhere. It just means that the hide a hose will have its own hose, and the other points will have a hose like normal that you can attach. We got 3 hide a hose inlets (12m), wand and tools set, wireless handle with receiver (so you can turn the system on and off from the vacuum wand itself), a garage caddy with Hose and accessories, a turbo head for carpet, a horsehair attachment thing for floorboards and the most powerful motor they had for just over $4k - other quotes were $6k without accessories We havent installed ours yet, will be done in about a month. But they have displays that you can test - one at the Home Innovtions Display Centre or at their factory in Scoresby Hey Bam you posted last month that the system was $2.7K what happened? I've heard good things about your installer Alan though Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 8Jan 04, 2011 10:32 pm Trish Bam Each point has its own hose. You can mix the Hide a hose with a regular system too - so have a hide a hose in the main area and normal outlets elsewhere. It just means that the hide a hose will have its own hose, and the other points will have a hose like normal that you can attach. We got 3 hide a hose inlets (12m), wand and tools set, wireless handle with receiver (so you can turn the system on and off from the vacuum wand itself), a garage caddy with Hose and accessories, a turbo head for carpet, a horsehair attachment thing for floorboards and the most powerful motor they had for just over $4k - other quotes were $6k without accessories We havent installed ours yet, will be done in about a month. But they have displays that you can test - one at the Home Innovtions Display Centre or at their factory in Scoresby Hey Bam you posted last month that the system was $2.7K what happened? I've heard good things about your installer Alan though Point me to the post and I may be able to explain? And the socks on the hide a hose are removable, washable and replaceable if needed Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 9Jan 04, 2011 10:35 pm Oh, you're referring to me listing my OB costs? This is what I wrote Quote: Ducted vacuum came in at +$2.7k due to opting for the 3 point Hide-a-hose system (came in about $3k cheaper than others though!) This just means that the vacuum came in at $2700 over what we had budgeted (as we had allowed for a standard system), hence the +$2.7k Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 10Jan 04, 2011 10:50 pm Bam Oh, you're referring to me listing my OB costs? This is what I wrote Quote: Ducted vacuum came in at +$2.7k due to opting for the 3 point Hide-a-hose system (came in about $3k cheaper than others though!) This just means that the vacuum came in at $2700 over what we had budgeted (as we had allowed for a standard system), hence the +$2.7k OH!!! I thought it was cheap! Good luck with it! Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 11Jan 05, 2011 6:30 am Are you guys hijacking my ducted Vacuum post? Shame... Let me bring it back by saying I've been looking at a few units online; the range at Aussie Vac and this one at Lux - http://www.lux.com.au/lux1100.php Does anybody have to say anything about the different designs here? The Lux has the cyclonic thing going on and as far as I can tell, the Aussie vac is a standard motor and bag. Is the "Cyclonic Filtration" marketing hype or a legitimate benefit? Also, best place to buy the 50mm pipe? Aussie vac use the Vaculine products (Vaculine® ducted vacuum fittings made in Canada). Wow, ducted vacuum systems need pipe from Canada? .... and I thought 50mm pipe was ust 50mm pipe There is no cheap local supplier of 50mm pipe? Cheers, HC Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 12Jan 05, 2011 9:53 am Trish Yes you can have too much suction, it simply isn't necessary to go over the top if you got a very overpowered unit you may have trouble using the system - under powered would probably feel like a regular pull-a-long system. If you are installing pure wool carpet do not use your turbocat every time you vac, the lack of nylon in the weave can tend to rip out the wool somewhat so we recommend using it every third time to to keep it clean Once again yes you can go too big, the units are suggested to suit the amount of pipe you have and the lift you require etc. If you are looking at DIY it would be about $900 all up for a basic system but including the 'correct' machine No issue but allow space to remove the bag (if you have one) generally an area 600x600x1500 is sufficient Garage installation takes advantage of the point on the machine for cleaning cars - I couldn't do that myself as the garage is too far a way from the house so I have a separate system installed and about to add 2 'spot by vroom' inlets. No feedback on them as yet. Yes the place I work at located in Knoxfield We are not competitive in the hide a hose systems, so if you are interested in that system give us a miss however, we've had negative reports about the system (dirty & ripped hose socks are starting to be a problem), installation needs to be done precisely however do consider a VacuSweep in your plans - good luck! heat_crime Hey guys, I've been reading through the ducted Vacuum threads here and have been skimming good info. H1 is a great recource yeah? I've found a lot of info this way. My wife and I are about to buy new carpet for the house. Big $$$$! To help protect our investment I'm going to install a ducted vac system (use to have one years ago and loved it). I read here that aggitation is required for the *most effective* cleaning of your carpet and not just suction. Advice from here was to make sure your ducted system had enough (suction) power to run a non-electric power head (like the Turbocat). No problem, I don't want to do things by halves and it won't be underpowered! I always wondered though, if you can have too much suction in your vac system... Anyway, Vac unit choice. I see different models with different 'air flow' and 'pressure' ratings (or Air watt ratings which combine the two) and depending of length and efficiency of design of the piping there will be a reduction of this suction. Where do you begin to nut out the power needed for your unit? Is bigger always safer? Can I go too big? I'll be needing 2 points upstairs and 1point downstairs with a 9 meter hose. The vac system would actually be under the middle of the house (It's a sloping block and I can walk into the guts of the house very easily). The points therefore would not be too far from the vac unit below. I imagine I would be using less piping than single story house where the piping has to span the length of the house. Really,I guess I need to know what sort of pressure i need at the end of the hose and work backwards from there, yes? Are there industry standards to be guided by with regards to MMHG at the nozzle end? Also, is it an issue for the exhaust to point under the house, in my case towards the upper part of my under-house section(where there is only 2ft of space)? Most people have the unit in their garage so i assume that this is not a problem. Can anybody help me begin to unravel this carpet and vac business? Cheers, HC Oops sorry Trish, I didn't see you replys in my quoted text. Thanks for your info. I see you mention the 'correct machine' and there can be too much suction. It really gets down to hard figures. How much suction is the right amount? Will someone in Knoxfield be able to advise me on this? I was going to contact Aussie Vac at some stage ayway... Cheers, HC Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 13Jan 05, 2011 5:16 pm HC[/quote][/quote] Oops sorry Trish, I didn't see you replys in my quoted text. Thanks for your info. I see you mention the 'correct machine' and there can be too much suction. It really gets down to hard figures. How much suction is the right amount? Will someone in Knoxfield be able to advise me on this? I was going to contact Aussie Vac at some stage ayway... Cheers, HC[/quote] Yeah sorry I realised after I sent the message that it was buried in your post Ask to speak to Andrew if you decide to contact us - he's had a vast amount of experience and should be able to advise you so you can add to your knowledge bank Good luck Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 15Jan 05, 2011 5:30 pm heat_crime Are you guys hijacking my ducted Vacuum post? Shame... Let me bring it back by saying I've been looking at a few units online; the range at Aussie Vac and this one at Lux - http://www.lux.com.au/lux1100.php Does anybody have to say anything about the different designs here? The Lux has the cyclonic thing going on and as far as I can tell, the Aussie vac is a standard motor and bag. Is the "Cyclonic Filtration" marketing hype or a legitimate benefit? Also, best place to buy the 50mm pipe? Aussie vac use the Vaculine products (Vaculine® ducted vacuum fittings made in Canada). Wow, ducted vacuum systems need pipe from Canada? .... and I thought 50mm pipe was ust 50mm pipe There is no cheap local supplier of 50mm pipe? Cheers, HC Heheh sorry Bagless systems appear to be good but you pay for filters and you have to clean them all the time. Filters should be replaced about every 2-3 years $50 or a pack of 3 bags which will last between 1.5 -3 years $20 The pipe isn't dear the rough in works out at $66 a point Hide a hose fittings are horrendously expensive though. The pipe is different to plumbers 50mm pipe - it doesn't need the strength and although I don't know the cost of plumbers pipe it's bound to be dearer than vac pipe? What ever you do don't buy Chinese pipe and/or fittings they are inferior and ill fitting. I don't know of anyone else that supplies the pipe 'cheap' as you put it but maybe someone else does know. Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 16Jan 05, 2011 5:45 pm Yeah, I can't see why I'd go bagless. Simpler and cleaner to change over - with the option of changing them more frequently if you have messy pets, like ours. I expect there would be a far quicker fill rate in our house! Hide a hose - I'm not so sure I want this after looking into it. Perhaps if I had only a single point I'd consider it. Piping. The question had to be asked. Just seems expensive for what it is. Thanks for your help. HC Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 17Jan 05, 2011 6:15 pm heat_crime Yeah, I can't see why I'd go bagless. Simpler and cleaner to change over - with the option of changing them more frequently if you have messy pets, like ours. I expect there would be a far quicker fill rate in our house! Hide a hose - I'm not so sure I want this after looking into it. Perhaps if I had only a single point I'd consider it. Piping. The question had to be asked. Just seems expensive for what it is. Thanks for your help. HC We have a German Shepherd which constantly sheds truck loads of hair - I change the bag once a year, onto the garden, and it's just full of layers of dog hair. We have a small house though No problem good luck Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 18Jan 06, 2011 6:38 am We have two parrots that live indoors. So feathers, dust, seed, food scraps and anything they shred all goes into the vac! Birds are messy. You reckon the ducted system will take all that punishment with out a problem? HC Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 19Jan 06, 2011 7:34 am What kills any vacuum system is very fine dust, like plaster dust, a small amount is ok but large amounts is risky If you are not having a problem with the things you vac now I can't see why you would with ducted. Whether large feathers could get stuck in the pipework I'm not so sure about probably depends on how flexible they are. Seed shouldn't be a problem. If you abuse the system, like anything, you run the risk of problems. Things like hair clips can get stuck sideways in the pipework and then over time hair and debris can wrap around it eventually causing low suction. This can be cleared out but it can be inconvenient. The benefits of ducted over pull a longs is low noise, power, 100% dust removal and large capacity bag/bucket. Re: Ducted vacuum - DIY, tech questions 20Jan 06, 2011 7:42 am if anything I was thinking the bag strength might be a problem, where perhaps seed and small food particles may cause it to break over time. If the solids are slightly damp then it may weaken the bag? I dunno. Our current (small) vac doesn't have a problem, but we empty the bag in that very often. We will find out eh? Cheers, HC Assuming the structure of your cabinetry is good then I would DIY everything as follows: - replace your counter tops entirely, - replace all drawer runners with soft close… 1 4785 Re my second point – yes exactly. And often it may take additional time if the manufacturer recommends no more than X meters… 3 5659 |