Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 45Oct 11, 2010 10:00 am Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 46Oct 11, 2010 10:36 am You may want to think how much do you love your floors. Quote: NSW: Homeowners May Face Jail Time for Wokrmen’s Injuries 08:45 am, Thursday 11 March, 2010 A workplace health and safety lawyer says homeowners may soon face prison sentence of up to six years if a worker gets injured or killed on their property. The alert comes on the heels of a court decision holding a Sydney homeowner liable for an electrician‘s death in 2004. Allan Harley was working on the Sydney home when he came into contact with a live wire, leading to his electrocution. Just last week, the New South Wales District Court ordered the homeowner to pay the widow of Mr Harley $70,000 in compensation. In his decision, the judge said the owner was aware, or ought to have been, that the live wire had been left exposed when a hot water system was removed years earlier. Michael Toomah of the law firm Norton Rose says many homeowners are unaware of their responsibility to people who work on their premises. “We owe that duty as a matter of law,” he said. “I think that case will come as a surprise to a number of homeowners, but it is pretty consistent with where the law stands at the moment.” According to Mr Toomah, homeowners have to take reasonable care to ensure that a task is safe before they ask a tradesperson to do it. “That requires a bit of vigilance on their part when they are commissioning work,” he said. The move to harmonise the Occupational Health and Safety Laws of all states will see this liability become a criminal matter from 2012. “The fact that they are doing work at a home makes the home for that period a workplace,” Mr Toomah says. “It means that the people at that workplace have a duty to that workman.” Mr Toomah says a homeowner’s negligence would constitute a breach, with a corresponding criminal offence. “[That offence] attracts penalties of up to $300,000 and/or six years’ imprisonment in a really serious case,” he said. Mr Toomah says vigilance by homeowners is important especially if they have availed of the Federal Government’s criticised ceiling insulation scheme. “That is precisely the sort of situation where you would want to go back and have another look at the work that has been done, and make sure that your home is safe for you and your family. “I think certainly the insulation scheme debacle has given people a wake-up call as to the sort of things that could happen when * work goes on in your home.” http://www.safetyculture.com.au/news/index.php/03/nsw-homeowners-may-face-jail-time-for-wokrmens-injuries/ Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 47Oct 11, 2010 10:42 am If someone gets injured on my site and I am directly responsible, there are ways to sort that out and pay damages (not sure why there seems to be assumption that we would/could get away with that ) ... so I don't really consider this as a main driver and issue. Far more likely is that someone will come, do damage and walk away free since I can't prove that they did damage, can I?! In fact, it already did happen and the person walked out free as a bird. free will ... If you ask tradies to work in dangerous conditions .... Totally agree with everything ... but not sure how you concluded that our house represents "dangerous conditions" ... either you haven't read the thread with attention, or are you perhaps judging by the condition of your own completed house?? This further means that you assume that we accepted a dangerous house and proceeded with handover And it also means that you assumed that we employed other trades (and that they were willing to work) in these "dangerous conditions"? This is the sort of dangerous conditions we're talking about (not ours, but viewers can get the idea, and minus the fireplace and the little raised floor where a little kid could hurt his little toes while running around and NOT looking ): Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ And guess what - our builder had a sign for everyone to take their shoes off when accessing our polished timber stairs while the house was being finiahed. Not only that, the supervisor was personally there most of the time when he had tradies so he can see for himself that all painters, plumbers, and various other fixers took their shoes off, even though it was still a (sort of) "construction" site (not sure if there is a distinction from "rough / external construction site" and "internal finishes and fixes construction site"). We could not do the final inspection without taking the shoes off ... the private certifier took his shoes off automatically when he saw timber stairs ... Food for thought ... a little bit of common sense has never hurt anyone ... or has it !?!?!? I now tend to think that it is more about a feeling of importance and/or hurt feelings (and a bit of lost time in unlacing and lacing up those boots again), rather than actual real danger. All this said while I am fully aware that certain traders will carry heavy or pokey or dangerous equipment, but a thermometer to measure the temperature? Or a phone cable?? If my guy carries his 1.8m ladders around, I'd be shivering if he wanted to take his shoes off ... but not with items that we are currently dealing with. ... I guess this thread has been a real eye opener even there are basically 2 ways of thinking that don't quite "meet" ... a difference in opinion is always good as it (should) generate thought on both sides ... so thanks to everyone even though some of us lost a bit of patience here are there (myself included ) ... My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 48Oct 11, 2010 11:26 am I think it comes to down to a bit of respect from both parties. As a tradie, you are being paid for your services and need to respect that persons house, and as a homeowner employing someone for their services, you need to provide a safe workplace. Surely it can work both ways? Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 50Oct 11, 2010 12:41 pm Ozibob You may want to think how much do you love your floors. Quote: NSW: Homeowners May Face Jail Time for Wokrmen’s Injuries 08:45 am, Thursday 11 March, 2010 Nothing has changed since the invention of civil law... Duty of Care exists all the time... it's what we owe to one another, the homeowner owes the tradie a duty of care, the tradie owes the homeowner a duty of care... etc. etc. "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 51Oct 11, 2010 6:50 pm ed @ EcoClassic [Nothing has changed since the invention of civil law... Duty of Care exists all the time... it's what we owe to one another, the homeowner owes the tradie a duty of care, the tradie owes the homeowner a duty of care... etc. etc. I only saw this post now, and I don't want to state the obvious, but still ... these above are such wise and civilised words ... so nicely said Ed My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 52Oct 11, 2010 7:05 pm My partner did our floors along with his dad and they ensured there was a sign on the door-every door of the house whilst the coats, sanding etc were being done and while the coats were drying and hardening. To my surprise all tradies took their shoes off during this process. His dad does the floors for the builder so all the tradies know him. After we moved in I would ask visitors to take off their shoes or they would ask "is this a no shoes house?". It also depends on the builder and his tradies and what the builder expects from his tradies. Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 53Oct 11, 2010 7:58 pm Had a tradie come around today to fix the air-con, he's been here before to fix the same air con. I've never asked him to remove his shoes (tiles are trashed in this rental, no matter how much I mop and clean they still look horrible) ... but each time he's come into the house he's taken his shoes off without ever being asked. ~ trying to build our dream home by the sea ~ Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 54Oct 11, 2010 10:01 pm ed @ EcoClassic Nothing has changed since the invention of civil law... Duty of Care exists all the time... it's what we owe to one another, the homeowner owes the tradie a duty of care, the tradie owes the homeowner a duty of care... etc. etc. Exactly.. Tradies should wipe their feet before entering a home and the home owner should tell the tradie to wear shoes when they see they are not wearing any. ..but that's not quite what you meant eh. Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 55Oct 11, 2010 11:00 pm TheOK ed @ EcoClassic Nothing has changed since the invention of civil law... Duty of Care exists all the time... it's what we owe to one another, the homeowner owes the tradie a duty of care, the tradie owes the homeowner a duty of care... etc. etc. Exactly.. Tradies should wipe their feet before entering a home and the home owner should tell the tradie to wear shoes when they see they are not wearing any. ..but that's not quite what you meant eh. I meant exactly what I said... TheOK Exactly.. "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 56Oct 11, 2010 11:12 pm I agree with theOK's stance. I have never and would never ask a tradie to remove their shoes to come in. why are your floors the tradies's problem? If I'm worried about the floors or carpet I put down a heavy drop sheet for them to walk on - it's not a hard thing to do to protect my own floors, to me it's just common sense. Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 57Oct 11, 2010 11:32 pm ed @ EcoClassic TheOK ed @ EcoClassic Nothing has changed since the invention of civil law... Duty of Care exists all the time... it's what we owe to one another, the homeowner owes the tradie a duty of care, the tradie owes the homeowner a duty of care... etc. etc. Exactly.. Tradies should wipe their feet before entering a home and the home owner should tell the tradie to wear shoes when they see they are not wearing any. ..but that's not quite what you meant eh. I meant exactly what I said... Really? ed @ EcoClassic We have tradies and they would respect the owner's wishes... Ed Sounds rather hypocritical, where's your duty of care now? Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 58Oct 11, 2010 11:49 pm TheOK Really? ed @ EcoClassic We have tradies and they would respect the owner's wishes... Ed Sounds rather hypocritical, where's your duty of care now? Google RESPECT "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 59Oct 12, 2010 12:15 am ed @ EcoClassic TheOK Really? ed @ EcoClassic We have tradies and they would respect the owner's wishes... Ed Sounds rather hypocritical, where's your duty of care now? Google RESPECT Google WISHES Re: Tradies, Shoes and Timber Floors 60Oct 12, 2010 7:54 am TheOK ed @ EcoClassic Google RESPECT Google WISHES Read all my posts in this thread, there is no ambiguity. homeone 2. Be respectful of other members at all times. Flaming or abusing (incl. bullying, belittling or humiliating) other members in any way is not acceptable. "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Elvis has left the building... The site supervisor quit after 2 month on the project. I guess he was just instructed to bark at people, but didn't like when he was… 26 20864 Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 15886 2 4669 |