Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Aug 10, 2010 9:39 am Hi Guys need your help. Hopefully there are town planners out there. Someone has already tried to put a town planning permit in for 22 townhouse on the land highlighted in the red circle. Coucil has luckly this time alredy declined the permit and have told the owner that 22 town houses would be an over developement. I am scared they re going to keep coming with a few less units everytime. I think that most people around the area would be happy with would be 8 or 10. Does anyone have any info on how to object based on neighbourhood character. I have in the link an aeral photo to give you an idea of the type of house and issues there may be with having so many houses. Any comments or link to information would be great would be great. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 2Aug 10, 2010 1:58 pm The area looks pretty built up so I think that they are going to be able to build a few units. It will basically all come down to what the Council will allow on the parcel. ie our block was 3800sqm (ish) - our local Council told me I could comfortably build 13-15 units on it (but in our case we were just building two family homes). This was in a suburb close to the centre of Newcastle NSW. Looking at that picture there doesn't seem to be any large lots - mainly homes taking up the majority of the blocks so I don't know how you could claim character - unless they were all older / heritage homes? Some things are worth waiting for. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 3Aug 10, 2010 2:04 pm I'm just wondering what the actual issues would be if there were units? If there isn't any actual issues that will be caused, I can't see that eventually a development won't go ahead. Increase population + soaring house prices + lack of land = medium to high density development. It's inevitable. I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 4Aug 10, 2010 2:28 pm There was a current proposed development in our town rejected by Council based on the fact that there was insufficient infrastructure (i.e roads and off road parking) for current houses - let alone an influx of heaps more (I think it was 18 units). I am pretty sure that they have to have a notice or intent to build/erect "X" building up and residents of the surrounding area have the ability to write in with their objections for like 14 days after the notice is posted. I'm unsure whether it would be posted in your local paper etc but I'm sure you would get more info from your council. Good Luck - I know I wouldn't want that in my neighbourhood. Sleven Moved into our Atlantique MkII 36 by Carlisle Homes Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 5Aug 10, 2010 2:36 pm This is good feedback guys. I have already been doing some research and there doesn’t need to heritage for character. Just needs to show that the development blends in with the surrounding area. The area is current vary open and not build up like many other suburbs these days. Even the medium density areas (bottom left in photo) where designed in a way where no two houses where joint together. All have double garage and all have landscape parks etc. If this was maintained on the block in question there would be less of an issue. Also not too sure what you definition is of large blocks however on the main block shown in the picture the average land size is around 700 to 1000 square meters. Perhaps there is no sense of size in the photo. Also Joles issue in this case would be over development. I did a count and there are 19 houses that occupy most of the one stage. Block as said are 700 to 1000 square meters. Already someone is trying to fit 22 houses on a 3500 block. In my eyes and the council that is an over development. The next issue is traffic and parking. There is a school, childcare and swimming pool being built to the left, the development was to tale away a large amount of car parking space. Also have so many two storey units may effect the safety of people (children) walk on the footpath if the houses a built in a way to reduce visibility. Going back on Neighbourhood charter there neighbour has existing convoryance e all the way around. It just os happens this land was reserved for childcare and no it is being built across the road. The estate also already has areas of medium density (say 300-400 square meters) per block this is something myself and the neighbours would be happy with. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 6Aug 10, 2010 2:44 pm I think that there are people out there that are not married or don't have kids, or just don't want a large home, who are not served by current developments. How else can they fit into a community? We don't see subdivisions with odd sized blocks that could cater for them, there seems only to be this sort of medium density development or older areas where there is a mixture of housing sizes. IMO, town house developments can look really nice and lift the character of the neighbourhood. As populations age, today's new developments will over time be inhabited by empty nesters and some singles. They all need somewhere to live without lifting up stakes. I think we need more mixed developments, I particularly like the resort style living and gated communities. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 7Aug 10, 2010 2:52 pm Hi Ed, i agree with what your saying. The issue is about finding a happy medium. Where do you draw the line?? This is an outer suburb 22 klm out from the city (west). However the issues here are going to be changing the use of a piece of land. It not like it was like that from the start. To put things in prospective there are many design guidlines that need to be meet and still need to be meet when building in the estate. For example houses need to be off a particular size. You cant copy house facades that are within three houses. You cant have fences to the street and also on the street side. (ie fences stop 6 meters back) The main issues are still however are things like car parking etc. When go for walks and pass through the medium density areas (say 400 squaremeter block) there are cars everywhere and looks all cluttered. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 8Aug 10, 2010 3:02 pm I don't see how an objection could stop the town houses.I think there's possibly room for up-to 12 and it will look like any other developing neighborhood. Infact the layout of houses, the ovals and other undeveloped areas suggest that someone needs to build these multi-unit type living. If i owned the land i would first look at how much development the council would permit, its a good plan to know the limits. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 9Aug 10, 2010 3:07 pm zion187reigneth I don't see how an objection could stop the town houses.I think there's possibly room for up-to 12 and it will look like any other developing neighborhood. Infact the layout of houses, the ovals and other undeveloped areas suggest that some needs to build these multi-unit type living. If i owned the land i would first look at how much development the council would permit, its a good plan to know the limits. Yes i agree 12 in the end may be suitable. However the issue is the builder has already tried 22 which is almost double. How do you determine what is a fair number of houses to put on the land. No one has been able to say anything appart from the fact that it is required. I dont disaggree. In either way its going to be subdivided. The question is into how many. And what wouldbe a fair number in todays view. ALso does it seem correct to have houses on less than 300 squaremeters in close proximety to lots of 1000 squaremeters with covernience that dont allow you to subdivide?? Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 10Aug 10, 2010 3:18 pm Design and engineering can give the developer the same requirements as the houses. Eg. being that as long as a house looks good from the front and the internal designs are legal then the council cant tell you to have family-room out the back,front door needs to be green etc etc. what i mean is as long as it looks good, then neighbors cant bother you Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 11Aug 10, 2010 3:44 pm not too sure which angle your taking. However in this estate there are covonents that can actually tell you not to paint your door green. In fact there was a ugly purple house that need to change its color to something better before they where allowed to sell the house, as it breached the covonent. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 12Aug 10, 2010 4:10 pm B STAR However in this estate there are covenants that can actually tell you not to paint your door green. In fact there was a ugly purple house that need to change its color to something better before they where allowed to sell the house, as it breached the covenant. This is my point, that maybe the color purple is not ugly by itself, or at least all shades of purple are not ugly. It was the design and amount of purple and the conflicting colors around it. Its the same with the Townhouse,the amount of town housing and design may in fact complement each other.This principle is the same for all the housing in the area , it becomes irrelevant how much m2 or layout, just as long as its legal.I dont presume that a council can say that something is illegal when it has already been designed and engineered by qualified people using legal requirements. It then comes back to how it looks and if the townhouse developer can make it look good no matter how many units he stacks on it then it comes back to the same principle or covenant that everyone else used to build there. Thats the great part about AUS , if your legal you can have a go. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 13Aug 10, 2010 7:38 pm B STAR You cant copy house facades that are within three houses. I find this interesting if only for the fact that I too live in a planned estate where the exact opposite is the case. Houses of the same design were generally built in a group of up to four next to each other right through the area. Admittedly, the estate was planned in 1888 but just interesting to see how things have changed. B STAR The main issues are still however are things like car parking etc. When go for walks and pass through the medium density areas (say 400 squaremeter block) there are cars everywhere and looks all cluttered. I guess this depends on what you mean by cluttered and car's everywhere. Our whole area is generally 276sqm blocks most with no off street parking and I wouldn't say it looks cluttered. Cars are parked all along the streets because the streets are wide enough to park both sides and still have cars drive down the middle. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 15Aug 13, 2010 1:31 am since the council has already knocked back the plans i don't know what you would be objecting too? It's basically up to the council what they will allow so you should speak to them. In my suburb you only need 250sqm per house but I suspect it is less for townhouses and the block you are talking about is ideal for multiple dwellings to a developer because it is fronted by 3 roads and that means access for the residents who will live there. I have townhouses in my street but they have their own parking so there's very little parking on the street and councils generally include those types of things when giving approval. Talk to your council but you may need to accept that a large block with 3 surrounding street fronts is bound to end up developed like this particularly where housing is in demand and where land prices may be high. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 16Aug 13, 2010 8:23 am B STAR zion187reigneth Yes i agree 12 in the end may be suitable. However the issue is the builder has already tried 22 which is almost double. It may have been an ambit claim. If the developer starts with 22, knowing it will be rejected, then they can increase their chances of getting accepted with a higher density than they would have if they had started out asking for 15. In any case it's still the council's responsibility to look after off-street parking and other issues that might impact you. In my area it's the free standing houses who are the biggest culprits in terms of long-term on street parking. I regularly have to weave left and right to dodge the cars parked outside the houses, but the medium density residents (mostly renters) use their garages. I think the problem is that people who own their house use the garage for storage, then stick the cars out on the street. Renters don't have that much junk. Metricon Riva 33 - http://herlihy-riva.blogspot.com Site start 15/03/2010 - Handover 23/12/2010 9 months and 8 days (284 calendar days) from site start to handover Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 17Aug 13, 2010 9:21 am btherl B STAR zion187reigneth Yes i agree 12 in the end may be suitable. However the issue is the builder has already tried 22 which is almost double. It may have been an ambit claim. If the developer starts with 22, knowing it will be rejected, then they can increase their chances of getting accepted with a higher density than they would have if they had started out asking for 15. In any case it's still the council's responsibility to look after off-street parking and other issues that might impact you. In my area it's the free standing houses who are the biggest culprits in terms of long-term on street parking. I regularly have to weave left and right to dodge the cars parked outside the houses, but the medium density residents (mostly renters) use their garages. I think the problem is that people who own their house use the garage for storage, then stick the cars out on the street. Renters don't have that much junk. yes I agree with you. I see that happening a lot. Mainly I would say because many driveways are badly desgined and only hold one car even though the garage is double. The major issue I am going to have is that the whole estate is very open an uncluttered. I like it that way it is and it is what make it different to other areas. Just goning ot have to wait and see what happens. Re: Neighbourhood character & objecting to medium denisity d 18Aug 15, 2010 8:36 am Obtain a copy of the Development Control Plan Schedules from the Council. Most Council's have these freely available online and there are usually different schedules per development type. ie; Residential, Medium Density, Comercial, Industrial, etc. What is the current zoning of the block in question? In the development proposal, is the developer trying to get the zoned changed to cater for the increased density? Are you an adjoining property owner to the proposed development site? See if you can get a copy of the Development Application that was submitted to the Council as the DA will contain details as to ewhat the developer wants to acheive for the site. As previously stated, Infrastructure, traffic management, and car parking are always issues with increased density housing. Loss of privacy and loss of solar access of adjoining properties via development height can also be used as a point of argument against the proposal. Hope this helps. Rgds Leonard. |