Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Aug 01, 2010 6:02 pm Hi there! My apologies for repeating this topic if it has been previously covered. I've scanned through the forum discussions but have not been able to find the answers that I'm seeking so I thought I'd post my query out. I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences. Situation: Two residential properties with heritage overlay in the inner SE Victoria suburb that have dilapidated to an extent where it requires major renovation and/or rebuilding. Both are < 500sqm; one with a frontage of approx 7.6m and one with frontage of 9.6m. Intention: To build two double storey residential homes for personal/rental use with clear design concept of what we want and within a "budget". Consideration is being made to include a basement in the narrow block. Journey so far: Due to the nature of the properties, both will have to be custom designed homes. To my understanding there are potentially two options available: 1. To engage a custom home builder to undertake the whole process from beginning to end. 2. To organize the planning and building approvals and then tendering the building in the second phase. Option 1 has been considered but the main disadvantage is that we do not want to "lock ourselves in" with one builder just to get the planning and building permits through. So, unless there are some reputable recommendations of custom builders who are reliable, trustworthy and not ridiculously expensive to handle this, option 2 is currently in favour. In exploring option 2, I've contacted several architects and building designers with regards to the project and have so far found the following: 1. Architects are charging anything between 7.5% to 13% of the total construction cost which includes town planning applications and not necessarily including the engagement of town planners etc. I also understand that though they have 5 yrs academic experience, they may still need to engage a structural engineer (another added expense). 2. Building designers are charging anything between 4.5% to 10% for the whole process including town planning application (again excluding the engagement of town planners, structural engineers etc). From what I've read so far, it seems the most cost effective way to approach this is to engage an experienced draftsman to provide the drawings for the town planning applications (i.e. to try to cut out the middle man). However, from one or two contacts with draftsmen in the local area, they are not particularly familiar with the heritage overlay requirements. I understand that town planners can be engaged to work with the draftsmen but is this an expensive exercise? To me, there is certainly a role for town planners if the application has to be appealed at VCAT but I am hoping not to venture down that path if at all possible. I guess my headache ****** with what the best option is to take considering that we would like to make the town planning process as quick as possible and the construction within budget. Is it best to: A. To engage a town planner that provide drafting service to handle the whole town planning application? B. To engage town planner and a separate draftsman? To add to my confusion, I understand that a land surveyor needs to be engaged. When does this occur? Am I correct in the following understanding of the process if I were to undertake the town planning application myself: 1. Talk to the council first to determine heritage overlay restrictions and requirements. 2. Engage a town planner and/or draftsman 3. Engage a land surveyor to provide the necessary reports to the drafrsman From what I've read so far, some land surveyor do offer the service of submitting the planning application as well. What are people's opinions or experience with this? Once approved, the building application needs to be organized. How does the structural engineer fit into this whole process? What other consultants are required to get to the "tendering for builders" stage? I admit, I am a rookie at this but I'd like to understand for my own benefit even if I do end up engaging the "middle man" so to speak. Looking forward to your thoughts. Oh any recommendations are certainly welcome as well. Thanks in advance. Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 2Aug 01, 2010 10:10 pm By the time I got to the end I couldn't remember the start. In my opinion you would be crazy to not engage an architect if you have: 1) existing structures 2) unique properties that require individual solutions 3) heritage overlay considerations You might think they are expensive but you get that money back in the end (quality) product. If you are spending $1m (which is what I would think you would be looking to do these two properties) on these two projects then an architect would be a good idea. I think you will find most architects prefer not to deal directly with council (for good reason - they are in the business of being creative not paper pushers). We hired a separate town planning expert to see the process through to the building permit stage at a cost of about $1000. Well worth the money given the objections and council issues he had to deal with . I would never consider doing the planning application myself but each to their own. These are the other additional parties you will need to engage: Engineer Soil tester Land surveyor Building surveyor Energy Consultant Cost Planner (QS) The land survey is the first thing you will need to get done. All this including the town planner was just under $20k for us. The whole process was relatively painless for us. Our architect and town planner worked together to produce the required plans and obtain the permits before we put it out to tender. Good luck. Renovation Thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=38489 Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 3Aug 02, 2010 6:47 am ConFuzzled 1. Architects are charging anything between 7.5% to 13% of the total construction cost which includes town planning applications and not necessarily including the engagement of town planners etc. I also understand that though they have 5 yrs academic experience, they may still need to engage a structural engineer (another added expense). I can only comment on a portion of your question. Our architect who by the way I Hghly Recommend, charged us 10K for everything...we didnt have to do a single thing, all drawings, reports, 3D images, permits and a beautiful well designed home( IMHO of course ) SE suburbs you have the development...you will be charged accordingly $$$$$$$$$. Not all architects work on a percentage, I am happy to pass you the number of the one who we used but he only does contempoary design. Not sure if this will help as you have a heritage overlay. Mrs B Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 4Aug 02, 2010 8:58 pm Thanks for your replies! We didn't anticipate having to extensively renovate two at the same time so budget is currently tight. We are more than happy to engage someone to handle the whole process....for a reasonable price. I seriously would rather keep my sanity if I can afford it! Of the architects that we've spoken to, they only tend to be interested in projects of a certain calibre. As for building designers, they are not very far off from charges associated with architects, hence our consideration of using a draftsman +/- a town planner. Biff, the cost of your town planner seems quite reasonable. Care to share their details? Do you recommend your designers/architects as well? Thanks in advance. P.S. Hope this was short enough! Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 5Aug 03, 2010 8:56 am PM sent. Renovation Thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=38489 Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 6Aug 06, 2010 5:46 pm Given your circumstances the services of a Town planner is a must. You need to engage a planner that has previously dealings/relatoinships with your respective council. I am currently have land wityh many overlays and my planning permit application has been in Council for some months now, this could have been considerbaly reduced had I employed the sertvices of an experienced Town planner. The delays (read money) and pain they will prevent is worth gold, especailly if you are pushing the boundaries. Also my architect gave me a fixed price, but I did negotiate. Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 8Aug 07, 2010 8:19 pm Thank you all so much for your replies. Fingers crossed that things get underway soon! Cheers! Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 9Aug 09, 2010 10:01 pm Hi, Just thought i'd fill you in on our situation as we are going through the town planning process at the moment. We have gone with a project manager/builder who has overseen our inital application process and will oversee the build using his contractors etc to perfrom the work. Through him we engaged a building consultant/engineer who has managed/is managing all the pre building work including the design, engineering and application process to get it to build status. We also used an independent town planner (again through the building consultant). We have just received our planning permit without any issues (no requests for redesign or re-submission). We are now in the process of finalising the working drawings and engineering and will be using our project manager's building surveyer to provide the building permit. All up the cost is around $4000 from the word go up to the issue of the building permit (all drawings, engineering, town planning, application fees) Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 10Aug 10, 2010 7:27 pm Thanks for sharing your journey McNicks! Congratulations on your planning approval success! We've contemplated engaging a builder to handle the whole situation from the start to the finish. However, we decided to engage individualized architectural assistance instead because of the many issues with heritage overlays, narrow blocks etc but predominantly to provide a bit of flexibility with regards to choosing the builder for the actual construction. Hopefully the design that will be finally approved will not be over the budget to construct! Re: Architect vs Building Designer vs Draftsman? 11Dec 21, 2010 3:18 pm Mrs B, we are in the building design stage and would appreciate contact details of your architecture. Like all other posters, we've been quoted some 10% - 15% of building cost to engage architecture / designer. Quite expensive. Thanks in advance. Your build is relatively simple, I believe your job can be easily done by a good building designer, you really do not need to pay for the architect. Remember, architect's… 3 10984 I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 10916 |