Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 21Sep 02, 2010 9:53 pm We got our rates notice today which costs $400 more than where we are currently. 60km out of the CBD is costing us more, I'm just not getting it... When my DH rang up to get the form to dispute it he got told that there is no form... They also valued the property $10k more than we paid 6 months ago but the valuation was done in January.... I thought we lived in the worst council area now, now I think we're moving into it.... My building thread : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36059 Paid initial deposit 24/7/10 Tender appointment 20/8/2010 Flooring and tile appointment 25/9/10 Colour and Electrical appointment 13/9/10 December site start delayed Site start (YAY!) 17/1/11 Slab pour 1/2/2011 Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 22Sep 03, 2010 11:06 am Just got off the phone with a friend who lives in Williamstown (Hobbs Bay Council) There rates are 0.0023 of CIV So H.B rates for $700k CIV = $1610.00 Maribyrnong council for $700k = $2222.00 What I don't understand is Hobbs Bay Council make (07/08) 66% of their income from Rates. Maribyrnong on the other hand make 60% from rates, BUT their rates are 38% more Council inefficiency comes to mind. Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 23Sep 03, 2010 11:32 am Move. Built a Tribeca 44 with the Big M Sales Accept 15/06/09, Contract Signed 24/09/09, Site Start 23/11/09, Slab 11/12/09, Frame 12/01/10, Roof 20/01/10, Lock-up 30/03/10, Fixing 30/04/10, Handover 27/08/10. Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 24May 22, 2013 5:45 pm BUMP Hi guys, first time poster. As an estate agent, I see a lot of issues in this department from our property management business and now its bitten me on the backside. Would love to know what the requirement is for the Council to resolve issues of rates that have been objected to. Seems like I am chasing my tail in Darebin with a 150% increase in rates and they are yet to provide any sign of resolution but maintain that I have to pay the rates. Well the 4th instalment is due in a weeks time... Are they making like an oestrich and hope I forget about it??? Cannot get a clear answer from them and would appreciate if anyone knows what legeslative requirements are in place for Councils to resolve such disputes. Thank-you for your time and patience in reading my post! Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 25May 24, 2013 12:21 am http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/property-titl ... -valuation If you disagree with the value of your property as listed on your rate notice you can lodge an objection with your council. Generally the objection must be in writing and directed to the council within two months of receiving your rate notice. It should state the value of your property and the grounds on which you are objecting. Built a Tribeca 44 with the Big M Sales Accept 15/06/09, Contract Signed 24/09/09, Site Start 23/11/09, Slab 11/12/09, Frame 12/01/10, Roof 20/01/10, Lock-up 30/03/10, Fixing 30/04/10, Handover 27/08/10. Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 26May 24, 2013 7:27 am The whole rate thing is nonsensical... the council provides services, and it should be on the basis of user pays, not how much land you sit your bottom on, or how much you have invested in where you plonk your bottom multiplied by a factor of $x. But the big problem with rates is the lack of accountability. Politicians government and local government workers live in a world protected from reality, pay and conditions, super etc., are all based on revenue they can extract from the rest of us. If our economy gets pneumonia, they get a cold. I am not having a go at the government employees whom I don't see as any different from anyone else, but at the system which simply says "we need more money, here's your bill"... It's not the formula for working out the value of the bill that is wrong, it's the notion that any formula which is not based on the principle of "user pays" is wrong. Without commercial reality, we have only virtuality - where councils live in a fictional world where there is no competition for what they provide. The council bill might as well be based on your waistline or even more logically the combined waistlines of your household, or how about, the number of birds you attract to your garden. Appeal the system... your reduction is someone else's increase. And lose weight, just in case they do use the waistline idea... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 27May 24, 2013 9:37 am Interesting point of view Ed. Can I put a different slant on things out there ? You don't actually own your land. When you purchase a property, you are securing a time-unlimited perputual lease of the land and the right to occupy any buildings on it. Your rates are your yearly rent. This is why you must get Planning and Building permission from Council when you want to change the use and/or construct anything. If you truly owned the land and any buildings on it, you wouldn't need Council permission to do anything. Built a Tribeca 44 with the Big M Sales Accept 15/06/09, Contract Signed 24/09/09, Site Start 23/11/09, Slab 11/12/09, Frame 12/01/10, Roof 20/01/10, Lock-up 30/03/10, Fixing 30/04/10, Handover 27/08/10. Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 28May 24, 2013 7:26 pm jimmalenko Interesting point of view Ed. Can I put a different slant on things out there ? You don't actually own your land. When you purchase a property, you are securing a time-unlimited perputual lease of the land and the right to occupy any buildings on it. Your rates are your yearly rent. This is why you must get Planning and Building permission from Council when you want to change the use and/or construct anything. If you truly owned the land and any buildings on it, you wouldn't need Council permission to do anything. Call that a slant... We don't really own anything, perpetuity is only a lifetime which is time limited. We belong to the cosmos. every atom of our being has always been here and always will, from before we arrived, and until long after we are gone, it's the same for every atom of the land, or the bigmac you eat, and even the council's rate notice. It just the rearrangement of these atoms into molecules, and molecules into substance that create the clay from which our homes are built and on which land they sit, that presents an opportunity for the council to present its rate notice, so that the councillor can eat his bigmac, paid for by you and me. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 29May 24, 2013 7:39 pm ed @ ecoclassic jimmalenko Interesting point of view Ed. Can I put a different slant on things out there ? You don't actually own your land. When you purchase a property, you are securing a time-unlimited perputual lease of the land and the right to occupy any buildings on it. Your rates are your yearly rent. This is why you must get Planning and Building permission from Council when you want to change the use and/or construct anything. If you truly owned the land and any buildings on it, you wouldn't need Council permission to do anything. Call that a slant... We don't really own anything, perpetuity is only a lifetime which is time limited. We belong to the cosmos. every atom of our being has always been here and always will, from before we arrived, and until long after we are gone, it's the same for every atom of the land, or the bigmac you eat, and even the council's rate notice. It just the rearrangement of these atoms into molecules, and molecules into substance that create the clay from which our homes are built and on which land they sit, that presents an opportunity for the council to present its rate notice, so that the councillor can eat his bigmac, paid for by you and me. Ed Jim, well said. Ed, not so much. HD Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 30May 25, 2013 4:49 am Lurgen ed @ ecoclassic jimmalenko Interesting point of view Ed. Can I put a different slant on things out there ? You don't actually own your land. When you purchase a property, you are securing a time-unlimited perputual lease of the land and the right to occupy any buildings on it. Your rates are your yearly rent. This is why you must get Planning and Building permission from Council when you want to change the use and/or construct anything. If you truly owned the land and any buildings on it, you wouldn't need Council permission to do anything. Call that a slant... We don't really own anything, perpetuity is only a lifetime which is time limited. We belong to the cosmos. every atom of our being has always been here and always will, from before we arrived, and until long after we are gone, it's the same for every atom of the land, or the bigmac you eat, and even the council's rate notice. It just the rearrangement of these atoms into molecules, and molecules into substance that create the clay from which our homes are built and on which land they sit, that presents an opportunity for the council to present its rate notice, so that the councillor can eat his bigmac, paid for by you and me. Ed Jim, well said. Ed, not so much. HD You are right Lurgen... Sorry Jim, no offence meant ... what I should have said is, I agree with you. And further, we don't own anything, rather it owns us. Land was here before us and will be here when we are gone - in that light, what is ownership... Back to the points about rates and how fair they are... the principle of user pays is what drives the provision of anything in a commercial world. While many services must be mandatory, like garbage and sewerage, payment should be on the basis of use, rather than the value of land and improvements. Yes, in general terms, people who have a more valuable property can find it easier to pay, but property values in new areas skyrocket as that area develops - as do the costs of the provision of services as the suburb grows - streets come before houses, garbage services are provided to the first house in a new estate etc. The council runs services and administers them, they can pretty well do as they please and simply levy the cost of their pleasure on the ratepayers. If they ran a supermarket in the same municipality on the same basis, a tin of beans would cost $10, to pay for the administration and operation of the supermarket.. With rates and services, it is compulsory, and there is no competitor. It's no use complaining about the formula for your share of the burden, when the burden is unreasonable. Even if you challenge and win, you can only change the cost of your slice of the cake a little and the problem is it doesn't change the price of the cake, so others will have to pay a higher price for their slice. Thanks Lurgen & Jim… Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 31May 25, 2013 7:03 am jimmalenko Rates are based on CIV - Capital Improved Value. This is value of the land + the value of any improvements - dwellings, shedding, fencing etc. How are valuations determined? To determine property values throughout the Shire, a qualified valuer is contracted and engaged by Council. The valuer assesses the amount a property would sell for at a specific date. The latest property sales, rental data, land type, buildings and their condition as well as other property improvements are also analysed as part of the valuation process. True True but it always seems that when your property is valued for the bank it is always valued 10% below the current market and when its valued for the council its 10% above. Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 32May 25, 2013 9:11 am Lourance jimmalenko Rates are based on CIV - Capital Improved Value. This is value of the land + the value of any improvements - dwellings, shedding, fencing etc. How are valuations determined? To determine property values throughout the Shire, a qualified valuer is contracted and engaged by Council. The valuer assesses the amount a property would sell for at a specific date. The latest property sales, rental data, land type, buildings and their condition as well as other property improvements are also analysed as part of the valuation process. True True but it always seems that when your property is valued for the bank it is always valued 10% below the current market and when its valued for the council its 10% above. But, if they value everyone's property at 10% above market and they have a set level of revenue to collect, the increased valuation makes absolutely no difference to the share you need to pay. If the valuations were lower by 10%, then the rate per dollar would be higher by the same amount. If your valuation is out of kilter and doesn't make sense compared to other similar properties in the area, then a challenge is warranted... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 33May 25, 2013 5:27 pm Ed, I like your second post much better Rates suck but they make perfect sense when you dig deeper into the mechanics of the system. Mine are higher than people who live just 2km away. This seems like a bad thing until you examine the contrast between the locations. It really is a user pays system. I'm moving from an older area where the rates are quite similar to my new location, and yet now I get decent roads, nicer houses (thanks to a sensible covenant on the estate), plenty of parks, fibre to the home, well lit streets, proper noise barriers next to train lines and main roads and hopefully this all equates to a better long term investment. Not just in terms of price, but in personal happiness. HD Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 34May 26, 2013 1:12 pm ed @ ecoclassic perpetuity is only a lifetime which is time limited What about inheritance ? Built a Tribeca 44 with the Big M Sales Accept 15/06/09, Contract Signed 24/09/09, Site Start 23/11/09, Slab 11/12/09, Frame 12/01/10, Roof 20/01/10, Lock-up 30/03/10, Fixing 30/04/10, Handover 27/08/10. Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 35May 26, 2013 1:39 pm ed @ ecoclassic the principle of user pays is what drives the provision of anything in a commercial world. While many services must be mandatory, like garbage and sewerage, payment should be on the basis of use, rather than the value of land and improvements. Yes, in general terms, people who have a more valuable property can find it easier to pay, but property values in new areas skyrocket as that area develops - as do the costs of the provision of services as the suburb grows - streets come before houses, garbage services are provided to the first house in a new estate etc. The problem is that Local Government is not a Commercial world - as evidenced by no competition - the same rules do not apply. Often it is those who can least afford it who use the most Council services, and those who use little to no Council services but can comfortably afford it who end up subsidising. It is standard practice for Council providers to charge on the basis of percentage of rateable income (or ability to pay in other words). Council is then applying the same logic to properties. No different to the Feds taxing more cents in the dollar the higher wage you earn. Wealth Tax if you will. User pays falls down when you start talking about all the big ticket items Council operates and maintains ie. if you live in a Court, should all residents of said court pay an equal percentage of the maintenance costs of the road surface and drainage of the Court, since they are the ones that use it the most? How do you apply that logic to a through road that has mostly non-resident use? Built a Tribeca 44 with the Big M Sales Accept 15/06/09, Contract Signed 24/09/09, Site Start 23/11/09, Slab 11/12/09, Frame 12/01/10, Roof 20/01/10, Lock-up 30/03/10, Fixing 30/04/10, Handover 27/08/10. Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 36May 26, 2013 4:24 pm jimmalenko ed @ ecoclassic perpetuity is only a lifetime which is time limited What about inheritance ? Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Objection to valuation of Council rates 37May 26, 2013 5:30 pm jimmalenko The problem is that Local Government is not a Commercial world - as evidenced by no competition - the same rules do not apply. Often it is those who can least afford it who use the most Council services, and those who use little to no Council services but can comfortably afford it who end up subsidising. It is standard practice for Council providers to charge on the basis of percentage of rateable income (or ability to pay in other words). Council is then applying the same logic to properties. No different to the Feds taxing more cents in the dollar the higher wage you earn. Wealth Tax if you will. Yes, I know, but that is exactly what I challenge, the fact that it is standard practice. That doesn't make it fair. Those who can afford, pay... they don't even draw the line on who can afford to pay. If it's who can afford to pay, then at least at a federal level it looks at income... But having no standards or competitors is the real bugbear here... they can then charge those who can afford to pay (and proportionately, those who can't afford to pay), whatever they like, taking into account any level of inefficiency. Roughly 50% of the council rate goes to pay for administration of letting out contracts for services. So of each dollar we pay, we pay someone 50 cents to pay the other guy 50 cents to perform the service... is there not a better way? Anyway, Jim, it won't change in our lifetimes, I am sure. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Hi, Appreciate any recommendations for town planners or advisors who can help assist to assess and draft an objection to a neighbour’s development in Northern Beaches.… 0 3631 Even if it's not being sub-divided and you want to keep it as Torrens title, you will still need to talk to a town planner or Council themselves, to see if they will allow… 1 11035 |