Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 61May 24, 2010 10:44 pm Where else but H1 could one thread talk about block sizes, developer profits, hamburgers, cars, debating, choirs and now Big Brother..... I think I'm following.. My house and my rants.... - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=26937 We are in!!!...and still unpacking. Thankfully there are always Tim Tams Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 62May 24, 2010 10:47 pm Indeed mpcj gotta love a good debate! mummagoose Quote: Let's all buy nothing but Double Whopper burgers from Hungry Jacks until they drop the prices of their normal burgers then! What do you think would happen to their regular burgers if no one bought them? Do you think they'd still make them? My point was only that we can't complain that it's developers who are asking too much for small parcels of land, because it is us, the people that buy them that determine their price. It is supply and demand. My house is only worth what someone will pay for it - it's no different for developers selling land. Supply and demand by its very nature, and in the context of this discussion, means that small parcels of land CAN be charged at silly prices because people will still buy them. The supply is limited, and the demand exceeds supply, therefore developers can cash in on this by offering smaller blocks for larger prices as people will still snap them up. It isn't the people who set the price, as this makes the assumption that the supply exceeds the demand and people have the freedom to pass up land whenever they choose. Unfortunately for us as buyers, the developers have the upper hand and can therefore they can charge essentially whatever they please. Unlike burgers, if Hungry Jacks Midland runs out of Whoppers we can't just go to another suburb for exactly the same thing at exactly the same price. Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 63May 24, 2010 10:58 pm The differences remain between city and country. The estate that we bought in consisted of a collector road extension and a long cul-de-sac, about 40 blocks in all. We bought one of the smaller blocks in the court, being 885m2. The blocks on the through road measure between 800m2 and 1100m2. The smaller blocks are those on the corner of the road and the court, which are basically the 1000m2 corner blocks divided in half, suitable for townhouse development. So, if purchasers don't want a block that measures at least 800m2 then there were 4-only blocks (including 2 corner blocks) that measure 500m2. Not a lot of choice. Geoff - Decophile. Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 64May 24, 2010 11:03 pm If you buy land and build a house on it, your alternative is to buy an existing house. So why would you buy land and go through all the hassle of building when you pick up an existing house for a cheaper price? Obviously, some people enjoy building and creating something, others like new houses and will pay a premium. But there will always be that close relationship between land and existing house prices because if land was really expensive compared to existing houses, everyone would demand existing houses and so land prices would drop and vice versa. Personally, I think Australian house prices are too high, but with everyone wanting to live in cities, high immigration and limited sites to build on, I do not think this will change quickly. Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 65May 24, 2010 11:14 pm Totally agree on that. It was very obvious to me when I was building that the cost of land + building was very evenly matched to the prices of established houses. No matter what you did the end result would be very similar in value to what was currently available once you considered size of land, house size and features etc... So the developers would have a pretty good idea what they could get away with when pricing land in terms of how the finished product compared to existing properites. I think its getting a little different now as new estates in nearby areas are selling blocks only half the size of established properties and the comparison just can't be made. They seem to be appealing to a totally different market in this case. Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 66May 25, 2010 8:11 am free will If you buy land and build a house on it, your alternative is to buy an existing house. So why would you buy land and go through all the hassle of building when you pick up an existing house for a cheaper price? Obviously, some people enjoy building and creating something, others like new houses and will pay a premium. But there will always be that close relationship between land and existing house prices because if land was really expensive compared to existing houses, everyone would demand existing houses and so land prices would drop and vice versa. Personally, I think Australian house prices are too high, but with everyone wanting to live in cities, high immigration and limited sites to build on, I do not think this will change quickly. In our area-to buy something with our budget you get a house of about 16sq, around 30 -40 years old needing a lot of work! For the same amount of money we are getting 24sq of living, double garage, alfresco smich kitchen etc etc-even if it means renting for a while then we are waaaay better off! Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 67May 25, 2010 8:40 am Deemaree free will If you buy land and build a house on it, your alternative is to buy an existing house. So why would you buy land and go through all the hassle of building when you pick up an existing house for a cheaper price? Obviously, some people enjoy building and creating something, others like new houses and will pay a premium. But there will always be that close relationship between land and existing house prices because if land was really expensive compared to existing houses, everyone would demand existing houses and so land prices would drop and vice versa. Personally, I think Australian house prices are too high, but with everyone wanting to live in cities, high immigration and limited sites to build on, I do not think this will change quickly. In our area-to buy something with our budget you get a house of about 16sq, around 30 -40 years old needing a lot of work! For the same amount of money we are getting 24sq of living, double garage, alfresco smich kitchen etc etc-even if it means renting for a while then we are waaaay better off! Demaree - that surprises me. Is that for the same size land and same suburb? As they say, location, location, location Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 68May 25, 2010 5:17 pm Warrnambool is one suburb! Town planning here in the past has been very adhoc-you can have high quality properties in the midst of Public Housing places.....The only difference is those houses with a sea view....they are up in the stratosphere! Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 69May 26, 2010 12:49 pm free will If you buy land and build a house on it, your alternative is to buy an existing house. So why would you buy land and go through all the hassle of building when you pick up an existing house for a cheaper price? Obviously, some people enjoy building and creating something, others like new houses and will pay a premium. But there will always be that close relationship between land and existing house prices because if land was really expensive compared to existing houses, everyone would demand existing houses and so land prices would drop and vice versa. Personally, I think Australian house prices are too high, but with everyone wanting to live in cities, high immigration and limited sites to build on, I do not think this will change quickly. Here you will struggle to buy an existing house for what we bought our land and built our house on it for. We looked at established int he same suburb and were looking at about 70k more to buy established and it was not essentially what we wanted! Move 2 suburbs away and a unit is more than our house cost us. Our house is 26sq on 590sqm block! 2nd build here we come in Whittlesea! https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=92617 1st Build - Henley - Cooper in Doreen! (2009) https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17354 Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 70May 26, 2010 12:59 pm Exactly my point CiNnY! We know the market very well in this area due to DH being in home lending for too many years! Also, we have friends who are real estate agents (they actually sold our last house & we bought the land from them) who have bought a block in the same street as us for the same reason-to but established they would have to have a bigger mortgage for a smaller house! Housing is at a premium down here-there have been a lot of years with little land releases and the rental market vacancy rate is around 1%! Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 71May 26, 2010 1:05 pm Exactly Deemaree.... a house around the corner from us sold about 6 weeks ago for $590k and the house is the same size as ours, same size block, front yard landscaped, back not done at all. Now our house and land owes us under 400k so why would you buy established... i understand block have gone up in value but not that much! 2nd build here we come in Whittlesea! https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=92617 1st Build - Henley - Cooper in Doreen! (2009) https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17354 Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 72May 26, 2010 1:09 pm the issue in this area has been that we are a university town on the coast surrounded by farm land (so the retiring farmers move into town), have the gas pipeline relatively close and also another energy plant being established 30 mins away-so established houses are in demand for those workers-ergo up go the prices! For those who have the option of time up their sleeve, building is a much better option. As always, you have to know your own situation and research the market properly-not make generalised assumptions. Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 73May 26, 2010 2:08 pm The facts are based not just on supply constraint, its also based on capacity to develop. In Victoria at least there is now peak output from civil engineers, which many of you are seeing as delays to title. These companies are charging like bulls for the work they are doing which is contributing to the cost of land releases. What people are forgetting is that cost is not just supply chain, its value chain driven as well. Releasing bigger lots and more land would be futile as in many areas around Aus. There is insufficient bandwidth for development. Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 74Jan 26, 2011 10:49 pm melbmeg It's all very well for the inner city snobs to laugh at the 'McMansion' owners but are they aware that that's all you are allowed to build in many estates? And if they were forced to live miles from the beach/city/established parks/charming farmers markets, etc, wouldn't they want a bloody big house by way of compensation? I know I'm WAY late, but bahahahahahahahahah (where is that little smilie thingy that is bashing the floor with his fist and tears streaming down his cheeks when you need it??!!) Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 75Jan 27, 2011 9:30 am I forgot how entertaining this thread was.... Interesting postscript: The last stages in our estate were carved up into teeny-tiny blocks, ranging from 300 to 450 square metres. There were a few 500-600 blocks, but only usually one in each stage and that either an awkward shape or in a really crap position, where the size would be the only reason someone would consider buying it. The first stages were mostly 600 m2-ish, with a number quite a lot bigger. This estate was promoted as a "prestige" estate, with good-sized blocks and 4-5 bedroom quality homes, designed to appeal to second-home buyer families. Land here was limited, as it's quite a small estate with only around 700 lots. It was also in demand, as this is the outer-most estate in this suburb, which now has very little vacant land left. There's lots of other land a short distance to the north, but then you have a different postcode, which apparently makes a difference to the value. Most of the new homes in the last four or five stages are 3BR, around 16-18 squares, many with single garages because the blocks are so skinny. Those have more appeal to the first home-buyer demographic.... single or DINKs. Also to investers - I'm seeing more new places with "To Let" signs out the front. That's quite a change in target market. These small 320 m2 blocks are going for $200K+. We paid $165K for our 570 m2.... Not only a hefty price increase in a few years, but more blocks out of the same-sized parcels of land. Nice profit for the developer. Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 78Jan 27, 2011 12:20 pm reaver Reading this thread has made me hungry. Maybe I'll go drive 2 blocks in my Landcruiser and get myself a Whopper. What happened to the Hummer? Re: Article - The Age - house sizes 79Jan 27, 2011 2:58 pm Land lot size`s are set by the developer,who is also in bed with the local council and they have all sorts of under the table deals going on! It all comes down profitbility to the developer and the council making a tidy sum on rates per block of land. In sydney the main problem of land/house prices is supply and demand as mentioned here earlier. Recently on the news there was a segment on immigrants/new citizens coming to australia and the report said that nearly all of those coming are planning on settling in sydney. Why? because that`s australia`s largest city,their relatives are already in sydney,and it`s where the work/jobs are most most plentiful. The problem lays with more people coming to live here but not enough land being released fast enough for new houses to be built to accomodate them.(then you have the cess pit of transit issuse`s in sydney) Which put`s a hefty premium on what is available and that flows across to existing houses and inflates the price of them above that of newly constructed house`s because it is already established and you can move straight in. It`s all about supply and demand and we are all but just pawns in a big money making chess game called life. If people can afford "McMansions" it`s because they can afford the land to build it and to run it. Whether they can afford to run it legally or via some other means is up to the owner. OK it's been a little while! I've been busy getting time where I can to work on this. 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