Browse Forums General Discussion 1 May 10, 2010 11:02 am Hi All, Its been a while since i posted in this forum as everything had come to a bit of a halt whilst our building designer was on holidays. It's since started up again and we just tried to submit our rennovation plans to city of sydney council on 30th april. They've come back saying we need to supply an arborist report to support the removal of paperbark in our yard. Im fine with that I think we have a pretty good case for the tree to be removed - we live in a small terrace property (only 3 meters wide) and this tree takes up too much room, its roots are bringing up a lot of our yard brick pavers which makes it hazardous for walking (people have tripped inc me), its also starting to bring up the wooden boundary line fence which we want to replace and i think it might be diseased (all these tiny white insects crawling inside it) - but i guess we wont know until the tree surgeon comes over (tomorrow hopefully). Both neighbors on either side of me have no issues with it going also - but there is an old chap in a laneway terrace that sort of backs onto ours, who said he would object to the tree coming out as he likes the shade it gives his small house and the pigeons (he feeds the pigeons in the laneway - they poop everywhere) - this is also the same guy that said he would object if we tried to submit council plans to build a studio on top on the laneway access garage as it would block out his sun (the terrace next to ours has this). So he likes his sun and his shade (he seems to objects to anything i mention to him) - can he have any power if we are within our rights to remove a tree on our property? If anyone can give me any pointers about this whole process that would be much appreciated. Its astonising the price of some quotes ive got for a tree removal report some over $1200. I think i've found a local guy that can do a report for around $600 but he's hard to get a hold of. Kind Regards, Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 2May 10, 2010 1:21 pm i just had an aborist report done. i have some protected trees on the area of the site and wanted to build in a protection zone around the trees, but needed an aborist report to say that it doesnt adversely affect the trees. i showed the aborist the house plan, he said it was no good, so i showed him another one, it was ok except for a pillar of the afresco being built on the tree area which required some precautions/alternative (this was getting very annoying). anyway, the report cost approx $400. other quotes were around $660. in am in brisbane, but u can ring around abortists in the yellow pages to get quotes. u can also have a preliminary onsite consultation with them, approx $88 charge, and if u decide to go with the report, they deduct the consultation fee off the report price.hope it helps Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 3May 10, 2010 11:17 pm I would highly recommend getting the council arborist to have a look before you submit anything formally - they were very helpful in our situation. He pointed us in the right direction and gave us a verbal indication as to what the outcome would be. Our independent arborist report cost us $550 (Melb). Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 4May 12, 2010 2:21 pm It's funny you mention that mcniks as when i called our city of sydney council to try and get abit more information on the whole mater - and asked if they could reccomend an arborist - i was basically told we can't tell you anything as it may look like we are favoring something or someone..... it would have helped us so much if the council guy could have come around. Instead the tree surgeon came over on monday afternoon - unfortunately for us the tree is in good health and will not impact on new construction. We wanted it removed as the trees roots are bringing up all the ground/brick pavers around it and make it very unsafe to walk. Mum has slipped over. And i know that whatever we lay down around the tree after rennovations - the same thing will happen - creating a yard unsafe to walk in. The tree guy wasnt that confident the council would see that as a good enough reason. My mum was fumming when i told her that - as she had a nasty fall and mentioned that if a similar tree was on council footpath and mum fell over im sure it would be removed. Does this have any weight you think? any pointers on the matter greatly appreciated. ps - i hope im not coming across as being pretentious - but when our yard will only be 3m wide by 5m long and the tree takes up a big chunk of that space - i hope you can see why we want it removed (the trunk is huge) Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 5May 12, 2010 3:50 pm Totally understand your situation, c. So, you had already submitted a Tree Removal Application to your Council (as your first step), but they came back with no reply other than wanting you to produce an arborist's report on the health of the tree? If that's a correct summary, seems like they are not going to allow you to remove it. If it's not correct, I would really just submit a Tree Removal Application supported with all the reasons you can think of why it's better to have the tree removed. And with your renovations, are you extending the width of the house towards the tree, or are you just building up, or is it only internal renovations? It all matters. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 6May 12, 2010 5:18 pm Hi Lex, Thanks for replying - its good to understand how this all works and i still have no idea. Our building designer first submitted our rennovation plans to council 2 weeks ago. He then told us that the council need an arborist report to support the removal of the tree (ie plans stalled) So thats the stage we're basically up to. The arborist has come over and filled out his sheet of paper and i guess is in the process of creating his report. Does he then send to council directly? I was not aware of such a Tree Removal Application... you mean you can submit this yourself without an arborist? As the council asked for a report i guess it doesnt make a big diff? Our renovations are extending the length of our terrace and building a carport - they are not impacting on the tree directly - although we would make our garage bigger (to fit a laundry) if the tree wasnt there. I've attached a birds eye plan view Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 7May 12, 2010 8:07 pm Hi Chriskq http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/Environment/documents/TreeManagement/ApplicationToPruneorRemoveaTreeonPrivateLand.pdf Attached is the Tree Removal/Pruning Application form from your local council. There are other documents on the council's web site which realte to "trees" - might find something useful there too. Another very useful thing to find and read is the Local Development Control Plans - they usually have a small section on tree policies, plus you can get more info realted to renovations/extensions such is yours (so that, for example, you know in advance what's not worth even considering doing because it's against the DCP, or "what else" you could do; also, the neighbourhood complaint/submissions - what is reasonable and what is not, etc etc). BTW, you should also be able to search and find council's meeting minutes relating to those development apps that are not automatically "approvable" but rather have to be discussed and decided at council's special 'development' meetings. You could be lucky and find some similar "tree" examples. But back to the main topic - it's a bit unusual that your "designer" has just "told" you what council "told" him. I personally hate second hand info - have you tried to call/walk in the council yourself? You might find them very helpful and open minded, especially if you don't have a "fight until death" approach - which you definitely don't come across as. So, a "normal" path would be: you think what YOU want; you engage designer/builder, produce and finally sign off house/renovation plans; these plans then get submitted together with a stock standard development appl to council; IF and only if you want something else (like tree removal, or house demolition, etc. which is NOT on the development appl), you source and submit that specific appl form to the council yourself. Extremely useful is to write a supporting letter and attach it to your appl and explain all the reasons why the council should approve your application. Just think of it from a council officers' perspective - I would personally hate to see bare minimum applications to approve something (eg. your tree) when the tree is healthy as horse, but the applicant failed to provide any arguments in their own interest!!! If your reasons are just not strong enough, they will refuse it. We had a similar case, with our tree being very healthy etc (plus we loved it), but we built our case and also the fact that we were rebuilding from scratch was a no brainer, even with the tree being well outside the building zone (there is some min distance). One of your cases would be the proximity of the carport to the tree - BUT I suggest you check the DCP or tree maintenance rules because a carport might not be considered such a "solid" structure like a house. Another option is for you (and this is unclear from your post) to build a proper garage instead of a carport. In that case, and assuming they approve the garage to be built, you would have a stronger argument to remove the tree (because of the garage foundations etc). Phew! I hope this is at least a bit understandable and readable. Web is your friend - heaps on info on council's web site. Or, if you prefer talking, why not just call them ... My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 8May 12, 2010 11:01 pm Hi chriskq, it would be wrong of me not to respond to your post given what we are going through to get our tree removal permit. Though I am in Melbourne, not Sydney, there are similarities with what's happened to us. Most of the gritty details are on the first couple of pages of our thread (link in sig below). To summarise: ~ 2 trees at the front (lovely) but have to go due to size, roots, siting of house on block in order to meet Rescode requirements. Due to size are protected by council. ~ 3 trees down the side of the block (blind side). Too big, have caused major plumbing problems for the old house for many years. Are protected by council due to size. However arborist's report has identified them as weeds for our locale + their eradication is *supposed* to take precedence over their protection due to size. ~ last 3 trees not in the way. But due to the arborist's report we have found out that they are dying + are recommended to be removed. Are protected by council due to size. First people we spoke to at the council said we didn't need an arborist's report (nothing provided in writing). So when we were ready to get the permit, we walk in expecting to fill out a form, but no. Next person at the council says they will not consider any permission for tree removal whatsoever without an arborist's report. Another month goes by. A good arborist is hard to find (many blokes around who will cut down a tree for you but not so many who want to write about the trees...) ~ finally found a great one + $900 later got his report, 23 pages and extensive. Definitely value for money. He covered 17 of the most significant trees on our block, though traditionally they are supposed to do each and every tree on the block, plus neighbours trees where they fall within 5 metres of the proposed build (apparently). Thanks to his information we have formal identification of dead/dying trees that should be removed (ideal if we can do this at the same time as the demo is done), as well as formal identification of the 'weed' trees we never would have known. He also verified the health of the big trees we wanted to keep. I have put a full list of the items our application had to cover (extensive). Some are the same things that Lex has mentioned above. After receiving contradictory information depending on who you happen to speak to at the council on the day, everything we have to do now in writing for the council. We are currently past week 5 of waiting for their formal response. Which could still be "no" ~ however we drowned them with info to try to prevent them coming back to us in week 6, 7 or 8 and asking "for more information", which they could still do. Hope this helps! Good luck with it, please keep us posted! ~ cheers, J _______________________________________________________________ We're a knockdown | rebuild ~ Melb SE burbs Building modified version of the Fairhaven Glenaire Homeone thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=28429 _______________________________________________________________ Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed - latest DA update 9Sep 22, 2010 1:13 pm Just thought i'd update everyone on where we are at with DA plans and tree. Have been told that our ground floor extension is approved, but first floor extension is not. Instead council said our property would be more suited to having a studio above rear lane accessed garage to increase living space. The removal of tree was also declined by council tree management as it was in good health and did not impact on our proposed car port. Now we are going to submit new plans for a slightly larger garage that will accommodate studio above. This new build will have an impact on the tree due to proximity. Has anyone had any experience with council letting them remove a tree for construction? We are happy to get the tree replaced with a mature tree in a different position - again has anyone had anything like that been approved? any tips appreciated Regards, Chris our yard (only 3 meters wide) with melaluca tree in background and drainage/trip hazard issue in foreground Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 11Sep 23, 2010 9:13 am chriskq, looking at your pic reminded me of an episode of Party Garden i just watched. There was a yard in Sydney that looked just like yours. What they did was raise the level of the paving. They infilled the ground above where the roots could be a problem & then **** brick paving on top. Easy & neat option. Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 12Sep 23, 2010 1:18 pm Thanks for the replys, Not sure about the fine tijili - not keen on finding out either. I've heard they be 10 - 30k for a single tree. I also have a back street neighbour that i think would try and complain if the tree is removed illegally. Both neighbours on either side of our property are ok with it going though - would it help if i get a signed document from them to attach to the new submission saying they are ok with replacing/removing the tree. Xquiste - the arborist also suggest lifting our yard to accomodate for the upbringing of tree roots. This would create a uneven level from the yard to slab of concrete that is to be used to the new garage which is not ideal. The arborist also said installing a higher paving would fix the problem in the short term - but it will continue to occur in the long term (uplifting of pavers) keep the info coming please - its great! Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 13Sep 24, 2010 12:25 am Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 14Sep 24, 2010 4:37 am chriskq Thanks for the replys, Not sure about the fine tijili - not keen on finding out either. I've heard they be 10 - 30k for a single tree. I also have a back street neighbour that i think would try and complain if the tree is removed illegally. Both neighbours on either side of our property are ok with it going though - would it help if i get a signed document from them to attach to the new submission saying they are ok with replacing/removing the tree. Xquiste - the arborist also suggest lifting our yard to accomodate for the upbringing of tree roots. This would create a uneven level from the yard to slab of concrete that is to be used to the new garage which is not ideal. The arborist also said installing a higher paving would fix the problem in the short term - but it will continue to occur in the long term (uplifting of pavers) keep the info coming please - its great! That is a crazy fine for removing a tree. Ive never even thought of that before. But living in Washington state, each person has like 6 trees in there yard lol Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 15Sep 24, 2010 3:45 pm Soem councils the fine for a second offence is several thousand but the first time only a few hundred. I know several people have found that option cheaper (an easier) than other options in the long run Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 17Sep 24, 2010 5:28 pm I assume every council is different capri - but ours i think was anything over 15 feet technically is owned by the council. tijilpi - i know what you're saying, but this round - the plans will have the tree in the way for what they suggested we build (a studio/garage) so i was trying to get a feel about if others have had there plans approved with tree removal - or maybe the council said only if you replace it? Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 18Sep 28, 2010 1:29 am Go to the links I posted, contact one of the members there and they will provide all the information you require to sort this. Otherwise this thread will continue and not resolve your question Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 19Sep 28, 2010 1:24 pm capri If the tree is not a significant tree, is permission needed from council or neighbours before removing it? Thanks Have a look at your local council website. My council's site has an FAQ section on removing trees, and a checklist for permits\permissions needed for tree removal. I'm currently going through this issue for a planning permit. H's Emperor Q1 on acreage Site cut 16/6/11 Slab 2/8 Frame 29/8 Tiles 9/9 Bricks 13/10 Plaster 2/11 Fittings 28/11 PCI 19/3 Re: Issues with Getting a tree removed 20Sep 30, 2010 10:03 pm tjilpi Soem councils the fine for a second offence is several thousand but the first time only a few hundred. I know several people have found that option cheaper (an easier) than other options in the long run I know someone who was fined $10,000 for a first offence, it was a small price to pay in comparison to the $1million reno. 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