Browse Forums General Discussion 1 May 02, 2010 10:25 pm Evening, Just wanting some perspective on this ! Work is underway on our dream home, we designed it and were very fussy about what we did and didn't want as we plan on being in this home for a very long time ! Anyway, we were very specific about the windows being sliders, especially in the large Rumpus Room that looks onto the backyard. Windows went in last week, four of them are wind out ones instead of sliders - 2 in the rumpus and the 2 kids bedrooms. These 4 windows are the only windows to be double glazed so we could meet the energy rating. When we called the builder the person DH spoke to said that their supplier doesn't make the sliders in double glazed and the wind out ones are more expensive and in his opinion a better window. DH told him we wanted the sliders specifically and they should replace them. He said they wouldn't and that the builder has the 'right to make minor amendments' and it would be up to their legal team to decide if this was considered a minor change, also that it would delay building - blah blah blah, basically being a bit of a bully and a bit rude too. DH is calling back to speak to the Director tomorrow. What do you think ? are we in the right here ? anyone experienced anything similar ? I want my sliding windows !!!!!!!!!!!! Wanted to add - the plans say sliding windows, and also we would of taken another option of meeting the energy requirement if it meant we could have the sliders, even if the cost was more, the cost wasn't an issue. Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 2May 02, 2010 10:31 pm If your contract explicitly states sliding windows then sliding windows must be supplied. Just inform them that the windows are wrong and leave it at that. They will have no choice but to change them. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 3May 03, 2010 6:01 am -JinjaP- Evening, Just wanting some perspective on this ! Work is underway on our dream home, we designed it and were very fussy about what we did and didn't want as we plan on being in this home for a very long time ! Anyway, we were very specific about the windows being sliders, especially in the large Rumpus Room that looks onto the backyard. Windows went in last week, four of them are wind out ones instead of sliders - 2 in the rumpus and the 2 kids bedrooms. These 4 windows are the only windows to be double glazed so we could meet the energy rating. When we called the builder the person DH spoke to said that their supplier doesn't make the sliders in double glazed and the wind out ones are more expensive and in his opinion a better window. DH told him we wanted the sliders specifically and they should replace them. He said they wouldn't and that the builder has the 'right to make minor amendments' and it would be up to their legal team to decide if this was considered a minor change, also that it would delay building - blah blah blah, basically being a bit of a bully and a bit rude too. DH is calling back to speak to the Director tomorrow. What do you think ? are we in the right here ? anyone experienced anything similar ? I want my sliding windows !!!!!!!!!!!! Wanted to add - the plans say sliding windows, and also we would of taken another option of meeting the energy requirement if it meant we could have the sliders, even if the cost was more, the cost wasn't an issue. The builder is right (supplier doesn't make them, awning are better and awning are more expensive) but so are you, you wanted sliding and they are drawn. This is an unusual problem because while I understand your need, most people would not have a problem with being supplied a better product... and I think you both have responsibility to sort it out. You can't have what the builder doesn't provide, but he should have drawn your attention to that. If you had another supplier's sliders (double glazed), they won't match in design (and maybe colour too) and they may not have the same energy efficiency so it may not work with your home design. You both need to reach a compromise. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 4May 03, 2010 7:14 am Ok, you have the right to demand a replacement of the windows, if the plans and specifications specifically nominate a type of window. The builder is obliged to advise you BEFORE he installs a different product. The builder is at fault and breach of contract. Having said that, you need to come to some agreement, whether you are prepared to go to arbitration over the matter is up to you, but you have the right, provided the builder nominated the product. If you nominated a particular product, be it windows doors or whatever and it is unavailable, the builder is not at fault. If when he goes to order it and can't find it, he should notify you and then you must nominate an alternative. If the builder nominated the product, then you are in a stronger legal position. Communication with the builder is important, and at least make it known you would like to be advised if he proposes changes and the reasons before going ahead. I can tell you, the last thing a builder wants to do is notify a client he is making changes, because this delays his programme, and it's one more call to make at night. You need to write to him or fax or email if he has one, to build up proof he is ignoring you and the contract. Also let him know your intentions if this situation continues. Going to arbitration is no different to going to court, you will need legal representation. If this builder has been down this path before and has been taken to arbitration, he will have more experience than you and calculate his risk more accurately. I can also tell you, there is no guarantee you will win the full case, and if you don't, you will be up for considerable cost. Builders employ QC's in these cases, costing thousands per day. Now, what is to be done. I agree sliders are possibly the worst windows (as distinct from large sliding glass doors) you could possibly have and for these reasons. -If they face the weather side of the building (South-West in Melbourne) and you forget them open, you can expect water to ruin your curtains or carpet. Most awnings when open will handle all but the worst storms. -awnings are easy to operate, and can be motorised if placed at hard to reach places. Sliders often get stuck. - flyscreens are on the inside and protected from dust and dirt by the glass when the windows are closed - awnings open bottom and top, so correct ventilation currents occur from top to bottom In a strange twist, I don't condone the way the builder has acted, but he has done you a favour. Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 5May 03, 2010 7:21 am The builder is saying, and I am saying, it is IMPOSSIBLE to provide the same brand of windows in double glazed sliding - they cannot be made... so the contract is frustrated, and cannot be enforced. I have no doubt, if you read the energy rating report, it will state double glazed awning windows. It is not unusual for plans, even elevations and window schedules to be different. Time for a compromise. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 6May 03, 2010 5:18 pm Quote: In a strange twist, I don't condone the way the builder has acted, but he has done you a favour. I disagree. I personally think sliding windows are much more practical but that isnt the point. And the point isnt whether awning windows are "better" or more expensive - if thats not what the buyer wanted and still doesn't, then they are not better off with them. It is NOT up to builders to decide these things for you and then expect you to be happy because just you have a dearer product They must advise you if there is anything unable to be supplied for any reason and allow you to decide which alternative product you will take. If they havent done this you have the right to demand the alternative product that you want now. We had a situation with ourt tiles - they became a discontinued line and builder advised us of this and we selected alternatives - I would not of been happy if the builder just picked some for us and said they are a dearer product, you are actually better off Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 7May 03, 2010 9:42 pm Thanks for your replies. We spoke to the builder today, the two large windows in the Rumpus Room will be replaced with non-double glazed sliders and we will be refunded the difference and the two bedroom windows will remain as double glazed awnings. We are happy with this decision. I am looking forward to easily and quickly sliding open that huge window that looks onto our backyard and yelling out at our kids also they are in no danger of injuring themselves on the awning as it would of been close to where we are having their play area. I agree Helyn, its not up to the builder to make decisions then say what they chose was 'better' what floats one persons boat might not float anothers in term of taste LOL Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 8May 03, 2010 9:48 pm -JinjaP- Thanks for your replies. We spoke to the builder today, the two large windows in the Rumpus Room will be replaced with non-double glazed sliders and we will be refunded the difference and the two bedroom windows will remain as double glazed awnings. We are happy with this decision. Well, why on earth did they double glaze them in the first place if it was so simple to have single glazed sliders??? Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 9May 03, 2010 9:58 pm Sorry Ed I should of explained ! They looked over the energy report and found an error ... in my (non technical!) words to explain ... the neighbours garage brick wall is on the boundary near where our rumpus room is, the review said the garage was over 4metres so would block out the sun so thats why we needed the double glazing to meet the 5 star energy rating, the garage is not 4 metres high so we don't need the double glazing as we will meet the requirements by having the 2 bedrooms double glazed. Hope that made sense Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 10May 04, 2010 6:39 am -JinjaP- Sorry Ed I should of explained ! They looked over the energy report and found an error ... in my (non technical!) words to explain ... the neighbours garage brick wall is on the boundary near where our rumpus room is, the review said the garage was over 4metres so would block out the sun so thats why we needed the double glazing to meet the 5 star energy rating, the garage is not 4 metres high so we don't need the double glazing as we will meet the requirements by having the 2 bedrooms double glazed. Hope that made sense That is fantastic... well done for pushing. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Four of our windows are wrong ! 11May 05, 2010 12:25 am I wish all the windows at ours were awning windows. The ventilation and easy of use is far better. The look nicer too. you can have them open with a bit of rain around and the rain doesn't come in till it blows a gale Unless the room is for storage then it's non compliant BCA V2 2019 S3 P3.8 You have 2 options 1. The builder deconstructs the section and rebuilds as per plan /… 7 10665 2 31333 there is only 20% difference in concrete strength between 20 mpa and 25 mpa, so check with your engineer first if it fits his calculation tolerances. There are ways to… 6 18294 |