Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Apr 04, 2010 11:59 pm Just a quick shout out, I won't mention the builder in question, but i am wondering if anyone else in Perth has had a new home that the ceiling has collapsed, reason = unknown..... our house was appox 6 months old and we came home to find the entire living room ceiling on the floor!! Apparently our fault, the builder will not accept liability! I have heard there are others out there like ours, but would really like to hear from anyone who has had it happen to them or knows someone it has happened to!! Collapse is not due to water, or anything obvious, builder claims it was the aircon that did it, house didn't have enough ventilation, so it blew the ceiling out!! HA!! ( it wasn't on at the time, and through much research have been told that it is impossible even if it was on!!) Hope someone can help!! Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 2Apr 05, 2010 12:04 am I'm in Melbourne and thought you might be talking about ceiling collapsing due to the bad storm you had a couple of weeks ago But a 6 month old house?? Ludicrous.... I'd be getting a solicitor onto this one.... Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 3Apr 05, 2010 12:10 am At least the storm would have given me an answer to why it came down (besides gravity!!).... no, not due to the storm, this happened over 12 months ago, still fighting it out!! Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 4Apr 05, 2010 12:13 am ruined1 At least the storm would have given me an answer to why it came down (besides gravity!!).... no, not due to the storm, this happened over 12 months ago, still fighting it out!! Sounds like crappy workmanship then, unless you set up a plane runway on your roof, then I suppose the builder could say it wasn't his fault...... Sorry, not funny, but WTF?? Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 5Apr 05, 2010 12:28 am I hear you!! Don't worry, I'm laughing about it now, only coz i've run out of tears!! Not a good way to find your first home, and your new home, it kinda ruins it after that!! Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 6Apr 05, 2010 1:19 am It seems to me that all the answers should have been there in the aftermath. Were the correct screws used and did they hit their mark? Were they screwed in too tight, tearing the paper and ending up deep in the plaster with no holding power? Did they stay embedded in the timber or did they come down with the plasterboard? eg if they came down, then it would seem they weren't properly screwed into the timbers; if they stayed embedded in the timber, then it should be possible to measure the amount of screw protruding to ascertain if they were screwed in too tight. What about the dollops of glue? in all the right places? right type of glue? squished to the right extent? etc etc Surely the answers to these questions should have been apparent from a careful examination of the "crime scene" - which is what I would call it! Those answers should spell out who goofed and how they goofed, clearly sheeting home the blame and responsibility to the appropriate party. Hope you got lots of detailed photos, with close-ups of the fixings. I can totally understand you not doing that immediately, but I hope you did it before the cleanup and repair. FWIW, in my limited experience, it seems to be a very rare occurrence. I've seen a few lathe and plaster ceiling collapses in the old days (very localized). I've also seen a couple of feet through the plaster and 3/4 of a very lucky insulation installer hanging out from underneath a 4 metre high ceiling above a pile of tile offcuts on a concrete floor. And I've heard of and seen pics of collapsed ceilings after water flooding. But never heard of a gyprock ceiling collapsing completely for no apparent reason. BTW, another very good reason for getting to the bottom of it is to ensure what went wrong wasn't repeated in other rooms. eg I'd hate to see a ceiling collapse on a sleeping child. Good luck with getting the answers and satisfaction from whoever's responsible (from what you've told us this would seem to be the plasterer and hence the builder) Cheers zeke Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 7Apr 05, 2010 10:14 am In the past where the sheets were fixed with central temporary nails which were removed after the glue had set (this was a CSR specification in normal use) ceilings that were in larger areas would often let go due to various factors--ie-linear shrinkage of ceiling joists (5mm per metre is common) forcing the ceiling to firstly sag in the middle when only the glue was relied on, another factor we saw more often than not was when blow in insulation was used, being damp when installed and containing Boric acid (fire retardant) which seemed to attack the glue after a while--heaps of ceilings came down with this combination, this method of fixing has not been in use for many years now though (the 80's). I notice these days that only one screw in the centre of the sheet is common whereas it used to be 2 screws about 70mm apart in the centre (I have always maintained a screw holds another screw and never would use only one in the centre), I have seen ceilings fixed like this drop suddenly even while being installed with any vibration or the ceiling fixer in the roof space clambering about doing the back blocking of joints. I suspect this may be caused by a combination of heat build up and excessive linear shrinkage of the ceiling joists-also if any load bearing timber is integrated as part of the ceiling structure and the ceiling joists butt against it (lots of movement there, push pull effect) You should be able to see how your ceiling was fixed by looking at the ceiling joists--ie.-glue spacing, screw holes, you can call CSR/BORAL-(depending what type of board was used) quality control, they have reps on the road all the time handling issues, they should be able to make a determination for you Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 8Apr 05, 2010 11:09 am Hi all, thanks for your replies, all very valid points, that have been previously brought up, as I am not a builder, I wouldn't have a clue about this sort of thing! Apparently according to the builder, ceiling was screwed and glued correctly, and they apparently had the gyprock tested and it was "above" standard, we still kept a part of the ceiling , yet unsure who to go see to get it tested??? The supplier isn't an option, we have to look at them as being the bad guys as well, as they are covering themselves too. The cornice ripped clean from the top of the wall, and the ceiling collapsed in one lot, you could tell from the way the insulation bags were ******, exactly as they would have been in the ceiling. The screws were still in the rafters, and the glue attached as well, it had ripped from the backing of the gyprock. As you could imagine, we sorta went into panic mode straight away, yet still managed to get photos and video, yet this still hasn't provided any answers, even after an independant building inspector has looked at it. Still hoping to hear from anyone in Perth who knows of or who has had this happen to them!! Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 9Apr 05, 2010 12:35 pm I still think you should call in the manufacturers quality rep, they are independant of the builder and are employed as troubleshooters and quality control, a lot of them are ex tradesmen, they will take the board sample for testing, it must have been a large event for the cornice to come clean away from the walls too, only other thing I can think of besides ** installation would be a sudden wind shear updraft causing the roof to lift and then dump down again, have you got cracks under the cornice in adjoining rooms? Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 10Apr 05, 2010 5:11 pm I would dump it in the builders lap as your home is only 6 months old and still under warranty. Just because he cant be bothered is no excuse. What did the building inspector say? Arfur Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 11Apr 05, 2010 10:00 pm Hi, no cracks in adjoining rooms, and it happened on a day that was about 40 degrees, and little wind, in january. Building inspector said he couldn't put it down to anything besides maybe being faulty gyprock, he said we may never know what happened, but he only got to see it after they had put the new ceiling up. I have cracks running across the ceiling in some sections now, they weren't there before, and thats in the new ceiling which has only been up 12 mths!! There wasn't even any warning that the ceiling was going to come down, no cracks, no sagging etc. We went out one morning, came home in the afternoon, and there was a huge mess!! Im very lucky my children weren't home, it would've killed them!! Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 12Apr 05, 2010 11:03 pm In the context of ventilation with AC, I am a bit confused? An Evap system would exert upward pressure on the ceiling? If all the doors were closed and also windows. The air pressure would not possibly be strong enough to do that. No way! It wouldn't be too good for the AC blower motor. Reverse cycle AC will only use air from inside so how can that possibly affect things? Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 13Apr 05, 2010 11:05 pm Can you imagine the sort of equipment myth busters would need to rig up to the ducting to blow out a ceiling. Oh and on that, The ducting is held in place with duct tape. Is the duct tape stronger than the ceiling? If so that is a worry. If air pressure was an issue, the weakest point would have to be the duct joins where it is taped. Surely? They would blow out way before a screwed in ceiling does. Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 14Apr 05, 2010 11:29 pm ruined1 Hi, no cracks in adjoining rooms, and it happened on a day that was about 40 degrees, and little wind, in january. Building inspector said he couldn't put it down to anything besides maybe being faulty gyprock, he said we may never know what happened, but he only got to see it after they had put the new ceiling up. I have cracks running across the ceiling in some sections now, they weren't there before, and thats in the new ceiling which has only been up 12 mths!! There wasn't even any warning that the ceiling was going to come down, no cracks, no sagging etc. We went out one morning, came home in the afternoon, and there was a huge mess!! Im very lucky my children weren't home, it would've killed them!! There is something seriously wrong here, ceilings-and cornice rarely fall together in one big hit, the gyprock itself is not at fault, or not that I have heard of recently in the industry--there would be a huge outcry if this was the case, the reps would be out there everywhere if the product was failing and we would be the first to know--as they do when a major issue arises--like lamination of the liner paper where it separates from the plaster core, you mentioned that joints were cracking again within 12 months--this is unusual as the roof timbers and wall plates normally settle down in the first year, who installed the new ceiling?--what tape did they use??, was it paper tape or easytape (the open weave fibreglass one), if we used easytape we would have been sacked on the spot as the flush joints always crack if used, why they still market and sell this stuff is incredible, no ceiling company or contractor would dare use this useless product--only for the DIY mob. Do as I suggest--contact CSR or Boral direct. There is something not right here, plasterboard failing twice in such a short time is nearly unheard of, your building inspector wouldn't have a clue I'm afraid, seen this plenty of times, get the people who do have a clue on the job now. This situation is very abnormal to be happening twice within two years, I should know, I have ran a wall and ceiling company for years and have seen it all, especially in the earlier years when Gypsum board first appeared in WA. I cant help you any further other than what I have suggested, there is obviously something else causing this. Regards. Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 15Apr 05, 2010 11:37 pm Surely this is covered under your warranty? Write a lovely long letter explaining that if they dont fix your roof you will take it up with the Builders REgistration board. Why not ring them up first anyway and see what they have to say. Good luck - we are in Perth but have never heard of a roof falling in so really cant help! Good luck with it all. Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 16Apr 06, 2010 12:01 am I saw on Today Tonight or was it ACA this very issue. It wasn't isolated Give them a call, they may have a record of the story. Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 17Apr 06, 2010 12:35 am Fu Manchu I saw on Today Tonight or was it ACA this very issue. It wasn't isolated Give them a call, they may have a record of the story. I couldnt agree more - give them a call ... then tell your builder that they are very interested in running your story. Watch them move! Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 18Apr 06, 2010 12:53 am It was shown last year, late in the year from memory. Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 19Apr 06, 2010 2:19 am Sorry, I forgot to mention, the builder did come in and repair the ceiling, in a prompt manner, and with me bugging them for a good 6 months, finally agreed to paint SOME of the walls, crappy job they did too.... one of the workman put a lovely big dirty handmark on my wall whilst replacing the ceiling, so instead of cleaning it off, the painters proceeded to paint over it, so I now have a lovely reminder of the incident staring me in the face every time I walk into the house. Yet it is my expensive wooden floors, my tv, other personal items that were destroyed and damaged, I have been told by those representing the builder " are not worth much" what i am seeking compensation for. All the food that I couldn't take with us for the three weeks we were unable to live in the house, that went off because the power had to be switched off, the expense of someone to clean lounges and a rug, the MESS a so called cleaner apparently cleaned up, yet I had to spend a whole day cleaning before myself and my family could move back into the house. And amongst all this, just recently the house could have burnt down because they failed to put covers over the down lights in our kitchen, and when they replaced the ceiling, placed an insulation bag over the back of the downlight. I couldn't work out why when I switched on the lights, all our power went out...... the light had over heated and the insulation bag caught fire, causing the wires to fuse together and short out. Now for some reason our power shorts out randomly in different parts of the house..... and at the end of the day, they want us to walk away and be content with our house that has brought us nothing but greif.....yeah right!!! " The ceiling is back up isn't it??" Everyone goes through a few bumps whilst buildig a house, I would have prefered that to what we have been through..talk about 12 months of hell!!!! The cracks that run across the ceiling are hairline, I mean I know about settlement cracks but they don't normally run ACROSS the ceiling???? Also that story on today tonight, wasn't that just about insurance claims to do with storm damage etc.???? Thanks so much for everyone's input, believe it or not, every litle bit of advice helps!!! Re: Anybody else in Perth had their ceiling collapse??? 20Apr 06, 2010 11:47 pm Hi ruined1, I haven't been on here for a while and just reading through your post - sorry to hear about what has happened. I only hope it's not part of the group i work for. Without seeing pics of the damage, it does almost sound like a bit of a freak accident with what has happened - it could be a multitude of things and would be hard to pinpoint. Have you had any workmen climbing around in your roof? It's not uncommon for people such as Foxtel or Telstra installers to put a foot through the roof. Getting Today Tonight or ACA involved - probably wouldn't recommend it and to be honest, it won't really make a builder freak out too much unless you have full on proof it was their fault. Some of the current affair programs have handed over big $$ to building companies in recent years due to the fact that they could prove there wasn't enough evidence to suggest it was them and got them for libel or slander. Have you looked at paying a building inspector to go through the home and carry out an inspection of the property? they can go through every nook and cranny in your home and make a list of items which aren't acceptable to industry standards. As builders, we all have to comply to the building code of Australia and build our homes to a certain level. You can also lodge a dispute with the Builders Registration Board for about $50. Keeping in mind that you will need to arrange for an inspection of your home with the BRB and the builder to show the quality of workmanship etc. As you have been in the home 6 months, time isn't 100% on your side so if you were going to go down any of these paths i'd do it sooner rather than later. hopefully what i've written helps in some form. cheers Jay 1 10353 That is a really good attitude Akin to you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I do enjoy watching that tik tok inspector from Victoria but he does go a little… 12 81847 A survey must’ve completed by a certified surveyor. This form part of every DA requirement 3 223588 |