Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 2Jan 14, 2010 8:01 pm Hi there What state are you in? I think each state has it's own 'rules' and governing body. I can only answer for WA. I think here, it is the building commision. they also print a booklet called "dividing Fences" as a guide. When I was unsure I contacted them directly and they are quite prompt in response. I think as long as the fence serves as a boundary fence between the properties, regardless of its exact location (ie on your land) your neighbour is liable to pay half the cost (in WA it is half the cost of what is considered a "sufficient fence" which varies with each local council ie if you want a brickwall but a colorbond is cosidered suuficient then the neighbour only pays half the cost a colorbond fence) However you MUST get an agreement in writing first. If you don't get an agreement beforehand I think you are not entitled to anything. Re: the location of your boundary, i think you can dispute it. I think you may need to get land surveyors involved if you haven't already to confirm the discrepancy. Then if the retaining walls then need to be replaced, from what I understand from buidling our house, whoever changes the level of the land is liable to pay for the retaining walls. (very expensive lesson for us) Sorry I do not know about the other states. Hope that helps about to build our first home! Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 3Jan 14, 2010 9:56 pm You wont get compensation from the developer because you knew it was already there. Its your land, you can do whatever you like, and if you want to pay to move the retaining wall, i cant see a problem. I can see a problem if you expect your neighbour to pay, they have paid once already, is it there fault it was built in the wrong spot. Is it a possibility to put the fence in the proper spot. That way you get your two meters back, maybe you can plant veggies or something on that bit of land? Good luck disputes with neigbhours can get nasty, I can vouch for that, at least my neigbhours just dont talk to me anymore. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 4Jan 14, 2010 9:57 pm I'm not sure, please don't take this as legal advice, but I think there's something about if a situation like yours exists for a certain amount of time then it becomes permanent? I think you should get some legal advice about the situation. Didn't this question crop up during the purchase of the land? It seems to me that if your solicitor didn't explain the implications of the situation to you at the time you would be entitled to ask him now. Has a surveyor confirmed the discrepancy, as Wally said? Regardless of the law, in practical terms putting a fence on top of the retaining wall within your boundary would reinforce the inaccessibility of the land beyond the retaining wall. Do you particularly want the fence on top of the wall, say for privacy? We once rented a place that had the fence along one side below the retaining wall. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 5Jan 14, 2010 10:15 pm EKT Explain the situation to your neigbhours nicely, first. Then hope that they will pay 1/2 for the fence. Try to work it out with them, you can only try, and you will have to do that anyway before legal intervention. The fact you brought the block as it was and knew about it will not help help your case. Remember good fences make good neigbhours. KW........... “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 6Jan 14, 2010 11:34 pm In the eastern suburbs of Sydney every inch of land counts. When we bought our place in '94 (our first home and we were 'green behind the ears' as they say) there was no fence or retaining wall between us and next door. The neighbour was growing their trees (fruit) in our backyard (some arrangement with previous owner). When we asked for a fence (as we were getting a dog) it became apparent (due to the slope of the sites) that a retaining wall was needed. The neighbour agreed provided THEIR builder was used. We retained a structural engineer who actually noticed that the builder was building everything on OUR side of the block and made the dude pull everything to pieces and start again. We were told by the engineer "You are not rich enough to be giving land away!" Thank haven for him! Thankfully we still talk to that neighbour! Not the advice you may be hoping for but it is your land and you did pay for it, no? EKT It would be quite costly to redo the retaining wall but if it comes to that are we allowed? Or do we just have to accept that we are never getting that part of the yard back and move on? Why would you hesitate about where the fence would go and where the retaining wall must finish? You bought knowing there was an issue but did this get you a discounted price on your purchase? What is on your title? As a little excersise calculate what that land is worth as a portion of your paid amount. Are you happy to be giving that away? Maybe the neighbour would want to buy it of you! progress viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20401 sculptures viewtopic.php?f=36&t=26607 pole trouble viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25988 Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 7Jan 15, 2010 6:32 am Why would the boundary be "floating in the air"? There has to be land there, whatever level it's at. I assume that you're on the high side of the retaining wall....? I also assume that there's no existing fence? The fence should be built on the boundary - that might mean that it ends up too low to provide privacy due to the height of your land. Depending on the height of your retaining wall, perhaps you could add extension panels to raise the height. If that's not viable, you can always plant a screening hedge... Whatever, your neighbour is liable for half the cost of the boundary fence. The land is yours (whether it's usable or not is another thing). I wouldn't be giving it away, that's crazy. If you want to sell it to your neighbour, now.... - but do it all legally, with a properly written contract and title changes etc. If you have a photo of your block showing the retaining wall, it might be easier for people to understand the situation - I think there's a lot of confusion here. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 8Jan 15, 2010 6:33 am Thanks for the replies everyone. Just to explain a bit further - I was 20 when I bought this land so didnt know about looking for these things. Was not told by my solicitor or Real Estate agent either. buildingwithhamra is it there fault it was built in the wrong spot. Is it a possibility to put the fence in the proper spot. That way you get your two meters back, maybe you can plant veggies or something on that bit of land? Good luck disputes with neigbhours can get nasty, I can vouch for that, at least my neigbhours just dont talk to me anymore. The wall was built by the person who owns the house, its made from rocks from the land. Its rented out so its not the actual neighbours I would have to speak with (thank god because we dont want to cause trouble) Theres no way we can do anything with the land as it falls 1m below our block as it was dug out when the wall was built. The neighbours have it now as part of their garden/yard. There's about 20sqm metres which makes a difference when you have a small yard and 2 young kids. It guess if theres nothng we can do I can let the land go, but I dont think its fair that I then have to go and pay for the fence myself when they built their wall on my land in the first place. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 9Jan 15, 2010 6:39 am kek Why would the boundary be "floating in the air"? There has to be land there, whatever level it's at. I assume that you're on the high side of the retaining wall....? I also assume that there's no existing fence? The fence should be built on the boundary - that might mean that it ends up too low to provide privacy due to the height of your land. Depending on the height of your retaining wall, perhaps you could add extension panels to raise the height. If that's not viable, you can always plant a screening hedge... Whatever, your neighbour is liable for half the cost of the boundary fence. The land is yours (whether it's usable or not is another thing). I wouldn't be giving it away, that's crazy. If you want to sell it to your neighbour, now.... - but do it all legally, with a properly written contract and title changes etc. If you have a photo of your block showing the retaining wall, it might be easier for people to understand the situation - I think there's a lot of confusion here. Sorry kek, didnt see this as we were replying at the same time. The fence would be for the nieghbours privacy as we can see into their windows. We need a fence for safety to stop my two little ones from falling off the edge of the wall. It would difficult to put a fence on the actual wall as its made of large rocks and not even. I will try to get a pic this afternoon. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 10Jan 15, 2010 7:38 am So is the fall 1m? If you had a 1.8m fence at ground level, then obviously you'd only have 0.8m above your retaining wall. You could add extensions to bring it up another 600mm or so. Still a relatively low fence, but as I said, the right plantings would provide privacy. A custom-built taller fence might work, but the neighbours could end up with a bit of an ugly view. That would be their choice though - privacy vs aesthetics. The danger of kids falling is something separate you'd have to deal with, but you could always add a low barrier on your side of the retaining wall to provide safety. It wouldn't have to be fancy - again, you could plant in front of it. How about consulting a landscape designer and seeing what solutions they could come up with? You need a safe and practical solution, but you still want it to be attractive and preferably make your land usable as well. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 11Jan 15, 2010 10:52 am EKT It guess if theres nothng we can do I can let the land go, but I dont think its fair that I then have to go and pay for the fence myself when they built their wall on my land in the first place. Nope: get your land surveyed. Once you establish that the wall is on your property, the neighbours will have to pay to get the wall moved. Or, you would still be within your rights to build the fence on the actual boundary, which is lower and you'll get the wall. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 12Jan 15, 2010 11:45 am EKT The fence would be for the nieghbours privacy as we can see into their windows. We need a fence for safety to stop my two little ones from falling off the edge of the wall. It would difficult to put a fence on the actual wall as its made of large rocks and not even. If the neighbours didn't build a wall within their block or on the boundary and put a fence on the boundary for their privacy then it seems to me that's their problem. The big concern I see is the safety issue since you have small children. If a survey confirms the boundary and the neighbours changed the level and built the wall within the land you now own, ie land they had no right to be doing anything on, then I think Djelibeybi has summed up the situation. Btw what did your solicitor say about it at the time of purchase? Yeah, a plan and pics would be good. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 13Jan 15, 2010 6:26 pm Macy EKT The fence would be for the nieghbours privacy as we can see into their windows. We need a fence for safety to stop my two little ones from falling off the edge of the wall. It would difficult to put a fence on the actual wall as its made of large rocks and not even. If the neighbours didn't build a wall within their block or on the boundary and put a fence on the boundary for their privacy then it seems to me that's their problem. The big concern I see is the safety issue since you have small children. If a survey confirms the boundary and the neighbours changed the level and built the wall within the land you now own, ie land they had no right to be doing anything on, then I think Djelibeybi has summed up the situation. Btw what did your solicitor say about it at the time of purchase? Yeah, a plan and pics would be good. +1 (and totally agree with kek). If you are like me and HATE confrontation and disputes, I feel for you but you are sooo within your right to determine where your boundary is meant to be and you will be within your legal right to get the neighbour to move back and possible even carry the cost of it. Totally agree with a need for a current survey - will be DEFINETELY worth the money. progress viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20401 sculptures viewtopic.php?f=36&t=26607 pole trouble viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25988 Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 14Jan 15, 2010 9:52 pm Sorry, I just saw you had two posts in a row and I missed the one where you said your solicitor didn't tell you anything. I thought the reason one should have an expert do the conveyancing is so they pick up complications like this and sort them out! Unfortunately I know it doesn't always quite work that way. Oh well, I guess what happened then is not something you want to be getting headaches over now. I do think you should sort out the situation with the land though. Not only is not fair as you say, but it could come back to bite you if you ever sell sometime in the future and the purchaser's solicitor picks up the discrepancy between what they see on site and what's on paper. What are the people living next door using that part of the land for? Have you spoken to them, or to the owner, at all, or are you trying to get all the info you can first? Have you checked to see whether there's an easement along there, or any sort of services and utilities? It seems to me that if there is then you could have complications with that too, if the council needs to contact the owner for some reason. You don't want to be held liable for any landscaping that interferes with overhead power lines or impedes access to manhole covers or something. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 15Jan 15, 2010 11:20 pm Quote: It guess if theres nothng we can do I can let the land go, but I dont think its fair that I then have to go and pay for the fence myself when they built their wall on my land in the first place. Do not let the land go. Legally your neighbour has to pay for half of the fence, but you need to go through the right channels. send them a notice to erect a fence form, you can google it, and after 30 days if they do not reply, it is taken as agreed that they need to pay half. if they dont you go to court and you win. A photo would really help. Are your neighbours higher or lower than you? If they are higher I dont see a problem of putting the fence in the right spot. If they are lower, still put the fence in the right spot, a 2.1m fence may be all you need if their block slopes a lot. Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 16Jan 16, 2010 1:05 am Firstly it would be good to contact an independant surveyor. They should have a comprehencive understanding of how the law in your state relates to boundary inacuracies and what the statute of limitations is on the period of time it takes before you might loose ownership of the land in question. (or they should be able to point you to a person who can) Then.. Would it be possible to have a rock/ boulder wall company come in and dismantle only the portion of the wall that starts to go astray and rebuild that area on the correct boundary line ?? If the wall could be rebuilt using the existing rocks and with minimal outlay on additional rocks or land fill, the benefits of the investment would be great: your yard would be a little bigger for the kiddies, it would appeal more to future buyers (without the boundary weirdness) and you should have the right to ask the neighbour to contribute to the fencing of the boundary. It's for their own privacy after all Most of those dry rock walls are just held together by gravity and good will, therefore quite easy to dismantle if you have the right equipment. It would just depend on the company and if they accept smaller, intricate jobs. It's just a thought It might just be worth at least investigating possibilities with a boulder wall dude. Good luck ! Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 18Jan 16, 2010 6:40 am I agree with the last comments - pay yourself for a survey (if you do not have one), pay yourself o move the retaining wall and backfill. The have the neighbour contibute to half of the new fence in its correct location. Whatever it cost you you will get back in the value of usable land. Good Luck. I have a similiar situation, a neigbours garden build out of a dry stone wall encroaches onto our land, as well as gate and access way they granted themself years ago. I intend to build up the wall blocking their access, and removing the garden and rebuilding the drystone wall in the correct location, as per previous statements it is your land. Picnic Point - Subdivision and DA Approved -On Hold - March 2012 Georges Fair - Moved in Dec 2013 PP - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=25747 Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 19Jan 16, 2010 6:53 am That's a lot of land you're giving away for free. The wall also looks more than 1m high to me. I'd def be getting it surveyed (surprised you didn't need to for the build) and then putting in a new wall on the boundary...but that's just me. Built Liberty 42 - Handover 26th Feb 2010 forum thread: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17243 Re: Fence/boundry/retaining wall.Possible dispute with neighbour 20Jan 16, 2010 7:37 am Nightshade That's a lot of land you're giving away for free. The wall also looks more than 1m high to me. I'd def be getting it surveyed (surprised you didn't need to for the build) and then putting in a new wall on the boundary...but that's just me. Haha, yeah 1m was a pretty ******* estimate. I hadnt been out there for a while. Its the height of a standard fence 4 11199 2 7532 Thank you again Simeon.. I will call my certifier for that. Have a good day 4 5184 |