Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Oct 29, 2009 12:26 am For 6 months we have been watching our dream house being constructed. We toyed with building a house off our own plan however found an existing high end display house with a local builder which we really loved. We had to alter it slightly to fit on our block otherwise it was the builders plan. We advised them we wanted our house to be of the same quality as the display home minus a few big ticket items. We signed the contract in April and was advised by the Sales Manager that our house would be built in 3 months as they had no other work due to the economic downturn. We thought this seemed very quick at first but being newbies to the game we didn't know what to expect but I planned on it taking 5 months. The house has 4 bedrooms, a large office, lounge room and media room, gym and large outdoor entertainment area that was to be tiled with in in-ground pool. The house went up quickly at first although it became apparent the builders/tradies didn't recall anything that we had specifically asked for. The decorating lady had advised us 4 weeks after signing the contact that we had a standard inclusions list and our choices for the fit out were limited. We found that our PC for tiles had almost halved and the inclusions list had been altered after the contact had been signed. We were very upset to find our PC's had decreased and now we were given a very limited choice in each range. I was quite amazed that the standard inclusions list gave us a $1200 PC for a front door (when in fact we couldn't even find a single door at this price) and had to choose the other 16 doors in our house from varying ranges and was unable to even get a close match. There was one area in our house where 3 doors would have butted up against each other and the 3 were from different ranges and didn't look remotely similar. I had to elect to pay extra $65 to get the same doors throughout the house. To cut a long story short, the house became a nightmare. We weren't given any of the things we requested and believed we should have got in the price (which wasn't cheap by any means). The builder and employees became hard to deal with and if we tried to talk to them about something being incorrect in the house it would be met with a hostile response. I found that the ensuite toilet window had been placed too low (below the top of my bum and I am only 5 foot 1 inch tall) and 2 inches lower than the cistern. Told the builder, he wouldn't fix it. The wrong glass got put in the windows, told the builder, no outcome. I found that in one room the double doors swung back and hit the handle of our expensive louvres which was a design fault of theirs and had to sign a variation for us to pay to fix it! Each time we would go to the house we would find several doors unlocked for anyone to help themselves. The painters started painting before the plaster was finished. We tried to tell the builder but he didn't care and told us to stop giving him feedback or we could leave the building and would not be welcome to come back. Every one of our kitchen cupboards were scratched, our glass splashback was scratched and the wrong colour, our rangehood cover has a puncture mark in it and the overhead cupboards are visibly crooked. The painter has come back 5 times to try to rectify his and the plasters ******* job and each time the painting got worse. On top of that we got a very handsome bill for a number of items that were included in the contract price (although the builder has renigged on these items as he left them off the contract price accidently). My husband and I went to the house last Friday to have a look at the pool being installed and for the 20th time found the house open. People had been walking with mud on their boots over our new carpet and all through the house. We found a number of keys in the house which opened the doors which was scarey considering they were leaving the house open every day and over weekends. We went back the next day and 3 of these keys were missing. We saw a solicitor who advised that we should change the locks on the house so the house would be protected in case kids got in there and wrecked our house. The solicitor had sent the builder a letter to let him know but my husband decided to phone the builder to let them know we changed the locks in case they had to go there the next day. I went to the house at the same time to get a cleaning quote to do a final clean (builders cleaner was hopeless). The builder's manager turned up at the front door (I had never met this man) and when I opened about 10cm to see who it was in the dark he pushed on the door, grabbed me on my wrist and forced me to let go of the door handle and nearly knocked myself and my small child over in the process. He said that he owned our house and that I was trespassing and I had to leave. He then kept walking on top of me trying to get me out of the house but I wouldn't leave as my kids were in the house with him crying in the corner. This man abused me and was very aggressive and threatening. He would have been 6 foot 5 and 120kg and was double my size. I was so scared but was trying to be brave for the kids. The cleaners witnessed everything and stood at the front door too frightened to do anything but not willing to leave me either. My husband came flying over to the house and demanded that he get out of our house until the police arrived. The police come and they have advised me to charge him with assault. Our solicitor has advised us to move into the house to get all the faults rectified and then pay the final payment after the faults have been fixed. I am in a state of shock. Not only have we been ripped off by paying for a really nice house and getting a less than average one in quality, we have been bullied for 6 months by the builder and his office employees, he has committed contract ** and now when trying to protect our building I have been assaulted. I did announce to him that I was the owner as I had never met him. I now have to go and press charges against this man which I am not comfortable with. I am upset that this builder has made this once in a lifetime opportunity such a hard slog for my family and now we face a legal battle over the extras he is trying to charge and the feeling that I am upset with the thought of going to the front door of our new house. My youngest child is very frightened and has decided she does not want to move into the new house as it is too scarey. I definitely need to rethink security measures. Has anyone else had such a bad experience? I am so not looking forward to going to court over this. Michelle Re: Bad building experience!! 2Oct 29, 2009 6:01 am Dear Michelle, I cannot believe what I've just read. I am shocked and horrified (and teary, I must admit), and I cannot even imagine what you are going through. None of the bad stories I read so far come any close to this. Unfortunately, I cannot offer you any wise advice at the moment - hopefully your story will attract some good, smart and knowlegable people and I hope you get some good and constructive advice. In the meantime, please know that I feel for you and your young family and I really hope you get out of this without any further pain. I think the main thing is to try to preserve your sanity and health, which is very hard in this situation. I wish you much better luck in the future, will be watching this post - maybe with the help of others we can all come up with a workable plan. Good luck and hang in there! My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Bad building experience!! 3Oct 29, 2009 6:34 am You have my sympathy in trying to deal with this imbecile of a builder whose actions are disgraceful. When all the legalities are over I hope you to name the builder because they dont deserve to be in the industry. Have you tried the Office of Fair Trading or Builder's Licencing to shock him back to reality? Arfur Re: Bad building experience!! 5Oct 29, 2009 7:56 am Dear Michelle, I am another one who is in complete shock after reading your horrendous journey with this builder, I feel for you and your poor family. The way you have been treated is unfathomable, your poor daughter, this must be horrendous for you all, fight it till the end and DO NOT pay them another single cent, until you are completly happy with the final outcome, I personally think they will give up in the end! Hit them with all guns blazing, go to the building commisioner, solicitor, department of fair trading, EVERYTHING! I also hope you can name and shame this builder once everything dies down. Look after yourself and your family and hope you get a speedy result. Building Thread viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13002 Site start: 8th July 2009 Handover: 11/12/2009! 5 months total build time. 40 sqs of luxuary...Bliss! Re: Bad building experience!! 6Oct 29, 2009 8:17 am Disgraceful is an understatement. You must do what you are comfortable with. I would be dealing with it all legally and with the Police, and threatening publicity. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Bad building experience!! 7Oct 29, 2009 8:21 am I would be very careful, yes your building experience is awful, and your builders actions are disgusting, but they are right, you are tresspassing, this house dosnt legally belong to you. You should feel no shame in charging this man with assault, but did your solicitor say you could actually move in? I also dont understand the changing of the locks, all locks are opened by builders keys, once you move it you get the real door key which changes the locks so none of the builders keys work anymore. Good luck, I did not have a fun experience building, not as bad as you, but I hope you can still enjoy your house. Re: Bad building experience!! 8Oct 29, 2009 10:07 am Wow that really is a shocker... I can't add any words of condolences that haven't been said already. But back to the situation... You need to separate yourself from the saga and start working for an outcome favourable to you. Experience tells me that you need to document all you can... day by day as exchanges happened. Make notes separately so you both cover the territory... anything anyone said is in 'words to the effect of'. Emotionless! the law doesn't recognise emotions. only facts. You are on the back foot from the start, now you need to change your footing so-to-speak. Possession 9/10th of law well it is over a tangible asset and You have paid a lot for something. Unconscionable conduct springs to mind... see here http://law.anu.edu.au/colin/Lectures/Uncons.htm Don't worry just get your rightfull outcome, K? I will be having a read of some notes I have. If you want to share and unload, you are most welcome to PM me. Onc Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Bad building experience!! 9Oct 29, 2009 10:27 am buildingwithhamra I would be very careful, yes your building experience is awful, and your builders actions are disgusting, but they are right, you are tresspassing, this house dosnt legally belong to you. You should feel no shame in charging this man with assault, but did your solicitor say you could actually move in? I also dont understand the changing of the locks, all locks are opened by builders keys, once you move it you get the real door key which changes the locks so none of the builders keys work anymore. Good luck, I did not have a fun experience building, not as bad as you, but I hope you can still enjoy your house. This is true. Until final payment and handover you are not legally allowed inside the house. Even having a own cleaner come in is illegal until after handover. I would be getting proper legal advice. Sometimes its best to get out of the builders way and let them do the job. If there are isues deal with them when the time is appropriate Re: Bad building experience!! 10Oct 29, 2009 10:57 am It is also unlawful to commit assault... We now come to the remaining "excuse" areas of the law of contract. Just like misrepresentation, these doctrines may result in the contract being set aside, that is, the contract is voidable if any of these doctrines are successfully argued. Like misrepresentation, they relate to defective negotiations - something happened during the negotiating period which makes it unconscionable for one party to insist on the contract. i.e. a change in the terms. The doctrines are closely related to each other. In fact it is sometimes difficult to distinguish between them in a particular fact situation. They each involve the idea that one party has taken advantage of a position of ascendancy over the other. Duress involves either physical threats or unacceptable commercial pressure so as to procure agreement. Undue influence involves the use of a position of power or influence over another. Unconscionable bargaining involves one party taking advantage of the other party’s particular vulnerability or lack of understanding such that it would be unconscionable to take the benefit of the contract. ...and the Law is an *** (***= a serious situation) onc PS. D&S I don't disagree with you dadandsue This is true. Until final payment and handover you are not legally allowed inside the house. Even having a own cleaner come in is illegal until after handover. I would be getting proper legal advice. .... just like the builder becoming abusive and possibly aggressive to the point of harming an entity through frustration, the contractee has taken things into their own hands, to seek reparation. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Bad building experience!! 11Oct 29, 2009 11:09 am Michelle, I am so sorry to hear this has happened to you. What a truly awful experience for you and your family. I hope you give the builder what they deserve at the end of this. Good luck. Blog: http://bluemistkids.blogspot.com "Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, and professionals built the Titanic." Re: Bad building experience!! 12Oct 29, 2009 1:03 pm omg - words dont even describe their actions ! Id love to know who they are just so I can phone them and abuse them myself ! bastard$ ! good luck sorting it out... Reading something like that makes me feel so much more appreciative of our builder and makes me realise what a gamble it can sometimes be when choosing a builder. Id be interested to know if other houses they have built have been done in a similar manner.. surely they cant behave like that for just one of their customers. Re: Bad building experience!! 13Oct 29, 2009 4:10 pm That's just awful Michelle! I'd also suggest contacting Consumer Affairs AND the Building Commission in your state to lodge a formal complaint against the builder. 'A bottle of wine contains more philosophy than all the books in the world.' Louis Pasteur Vegie garden: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=27637&start=0 My Backyard Adventure Re: Bad building experience!! 14Oct 29, 2009 4:14 pm Wow, Im as shocked as everyone else about the agressive behaviour and think you should go ahead and press charges, however, I agree with other posters that it is not your house until final handover. You shouldnt have been there, you had no right to change the locks and you had no right to get in your own cleaners. I cant believe your solicitor actually advised you to move in BEFORE paying the final payment. If you or your children were to hurt yourselves in that house it would be the builders responsiblity, I can understand why he wanted you out. Re: Bad building experience!! 15Oct 29, 2009 4:54 pm dadandsue This is true. Until final payment and handover you are not legally allowed inside the house. Even having a own cleaner come in is illegal until after handover. I would be getting proper legal advice. I thought this wasn't illegal, just a breach of contract? My understanding of our contract is that the owner can take possession of the land at any time and lock out the builder, but this gives the builder the right to end the contract and claim damages. Metricon Riva 33 - http://herlihy-riva.blogspot.com Site start 15/03/2010 - Handover 23/12/2010 9 months and 8 days (284 calendar days) from site start to handover Re: Bad building experience!! 16Oct 29, 2009 6:22 pm Michelle, I hope you have a satisfactory end to the unhappy saga. Take your solicitor's advice; it's what you're paying him/her for. You had every right to be there. You own the land, and therefore everything on it. As btherl said, there may be a breach of contract, but so what? It sounds to me as though your builder is already in breach of the contract in numerous ways. Any professional builder doing a decent job would have no issue with you being in the house, (other than perhaps some obvious safety issues) in spite of contract clauses saying that you may not enter, blah, blah.... because they'd have nothing to hide. Re: Bad building experience!! 17Oct 29, 2009 9:48 pm Hi Michelle What a awful experience for you and your family. I would want to rip the guys undies for scaring my children and my partner would want to **** him if i were in your shoes. If you still need to deal with the builder, i would personally be having all communications through your lawyer and get him to attend site with you if needed. I hope you find a way to be compensated from this builder. Just keep in mind the law can be a ***. I hope you can enjoy your new home. Caz Edited by a Mod. Re: Bad building experience!! 18Oct 30, 2009 2:57 pm Hi Michelle, I do sympathize with your situation and I do sincerely hope things get better. However, I have to agree with the fact that there is a protocol to be followed in order to take possesion of the incomplete house. That protocol is very (or should be) clearly specified in your contract. In saying this , i am assuming it is the standard HIA contract. There is nothing illegal in moving into your home before it is handed over, however, as the others have pointed out, this is in breach of contract, nothing more. Having said that, it seems from what you have told us above that the builder has already commited several breaches of contract which should have been pointed out by you through proper channel. This in itself would not have you in breach of contract. I know that we sometimes do take the law into our own hands when we are in this emotional state , but emotions and the law are not a very good mix. Take heart that there are lots of use who are on your side and all the very best in your new home ! Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them. Re: Bad building experience!! 19Nov 02, 2009 4:28 pm That is shocking and I feel for you and your horrible experience. I know that moving for children is scary enough but under your circumstances it would be excruitiating. I would advise ringing the Building Commission and asking them to recommend a lawyer who deals specifically in this area. Whilst morally we all side with you when it comes down to points of law you might find the law isn't always on your side and you might fight a costly battle ahead with not the ideal outcome for you. Get a second opinion and best of luck. Fi has moved in!! Re: Bad building experience!! 20Nov 03, 2009 11:24 pm After a very busy and emotional week I am feeling better. At the time of writing of my original message I was in shell shock and couldn't believe what had happened. I am feeling somewhat better now. Thank you to those who have offered kind messages and feedback on the situation. In my first post I had left out some of the important details. Prior to all these events we tried to do things the right way. Firstly we tried on many occasions to discuss with the builder and his staff. I contacted Fair Trading who could do nothing, HIA - builder wasn't a member, BSA - wouldn't do anything until the final payment was made although referred us to the solicitor, Master Builders - spoke to a representative who advised he was a friend of the builder. Our only option was to seek legal advice. The legal advice we received (spoke to one solicitor who then referred us to a specialist in this field) was to cancel our contract and make it void which we did. This was the only option under the contract we had signed. The builder was notified that we had cancelled the contract. They were also notified that the locks had been changed upon the contract being cancelled to protect our house from those who had a key. As mentioned in a reply on this thread, we did not have builders locks on our house, I'm not sure why. The reason that I was able to get into the house and change the locks in the first place was because the builder did not lock our house, i did not break in. Every day I could find the house/block empty with no one in sight and our house open. This I believe was one of many of the contract conditions which the builder neglected. (The builder had given us permission to be on the premises and we both have a construction blue card as we have been owner builders previously. Kids were only brought into the house once contract was cancelled). So given that the land was ours, the building contract had been cancelled and the locks had been changed and they had been notified. I don't feel that I was trespassing as there was no contract. The amount owing on the final payment was a very minor amount compared to the investment of our land and the monies paid so far for the house. Upon cancelling the contract, the builder has the right to go us for what he can prove is fair and reasonable through a building tribunal which I say, bring it on. I also want to clarify that the person who grabbed me was not the builder himself but an employee of the builder who I had not ever met or spoken to so there could be no assumptions that I had provoked him. From the employees perspective, would you assault a customer (who you had never met prior) at your work because you may have felt that they were not doing the right thing by your boss or organisation? I hardly think so. I have also discovered that this builder has done this to 2 other families. One family is currently taking him to the building tribunal and the other made the final payment as they had no where else to live and then have tried to get the BSA involved so the faults can be rectified. So far they have $80,000 worth of faults that he refuses to fix. A search of his BSA license also shows that he has a major strike against his name for not rectifying a fault that could affect the health and safety of the occupants. Isn't it a shame that we didn't do more research on this builder before signing the contract. I have made the appropriate statements to the police. The witnesses are of their own free will going to the police to give their statements as well. I have had professionals in their trade come and view the work on our house and make recommendations on what needs fixing and how to fix it. That is why the cleaners etc were at the house in the first place, they weren't cleaning just doing a quote. Independent people brought in have been shocked at the quality of work in our house, especially plaster work, painting and cabinet making. We are currently getting industry experts to do formal reports clarifying what the problems are. Building your dream home can certainly be an emotional experience. Looking back at the events, I wish things had of been different and I probably wouldn't follow the same course of action even though I feel that our actions are just. We have now moved into the house and forwarded a portion of the final payment to show good will. The remainder of monies will have to be calculated after defects are fixed. I am looking forward to the building tribunal to get it sorted out. The proof is in the pudding and with the evidence we have I feel that the outcome will be fair to both parties. Thanks Michelle Hello, Whats peoples current experience building with Carlisle, specifically in SouthEast Melbourne? We are currently building in SE Melbourne and finding that quality… 0 9170 You might be able to apply to divert the sewer at your expense. In NSW you would contact a Water services co-ordinator and they would give you advice as to whether or not… 1 16104 do not pay until you are satisfied with workmanship windows require flashing over the head archithrave and up under weatherboards 3 28242 |