Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 21Jun 29, 2009 7:37 pm Our S.S. told us that he'd prefer to be there if we went on site during the day( so we didn't disturb tradies etc) but that he realised we'd probably be poking around after hours although we weren't supposed to be on site at all. We went on site quite a few times after work and quite a few times once lockup had happened we found a door unlocked. I usually emailed my builders office contact each time to let them know a door had been left unlocked and that i'd locked up. I'm pretty sure our S.S. would rather that than have to drive out himself or worse still leave it unlocked given that he lives at least 35 kms away. Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 22Jun 29, 2009 8:36 pm We visited our site almost every day. Towards the end, I was often there two and three times a day. The builder knew we were frequently there, and didn't make an issue of it. Just as well, since the place was unlocked 90% of the time, and I always went around and locked up - that was part of the reason we were there daily. We picked up numerous mistakes and omissions, some of which would have gone unnoticed if not for us checking on things. Not everyone can afford the extra expense of independent inspections, and certainly not as frequently as we would have needed them. The contract does state that you hand over possession of the site to the builder during construction, but as Rellie pointed out, you have a right under the law to reasonable access to your own property and to inspect work for which you're paying. It's a lot of money and you want to be sure you're getting what you're paying for. I'd like to see a court convict an owner of trespassing on their own land.... I'm sure there are annoying owners out there, but it seems to me that builders are getting increasingly precious about the whole access thing. Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 23Jun 29, 2009 11:22 pm I just had a look at our building contract, it's the HIA Building Contract and sections below state 9.4 You, and any other person you wish, can visit the site. 9.5 However, you, and they, must not disrupt the work 9.5 We must display a builders sign on the site (our roof will be on soon and so far no such sign has appeared) 9.7 Building Materials surplus to the requirements for the work shall be and remain our property Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 24Jun 30, 2009 12:18 am OK I have not work on many houses, particularly at construction stage. However my experience on large construction sites is the builder must have ultimate control of the site as he is responsible for it during construction, be it on you land or not. If you fall and injure yourself this to is his responsibility, for this reason it is in the builder interest to control who enters and who does not. Given you are the client, however most are quite responsible will allow ready access. The burglary issue, if this happens before hand over this should also be the builders responsibility and cover by their insurance.... builder out there please correct me if this is not correct, either way you should check the terms of you contract for this also. cheers David Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 25Jun 30, 2009 12:22 am T & E Division 3—Provisions concerning building sites Sect: 17 Restrictions on builders' control of building sites: A domestic building contract does not give a builder a greater right to occupy a building site than that of a contractual licensee. Contractual licensee. That’s you & me. See my post in building a new house with several other good comments from other members. Can you tell me why you think it would be illigal to entre you own property? In fact you also have a right to ask the builder to leave your property if you want, but its not recomended. Go, look, be careful and co operate with them just to keep them happy. KW......... “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 26Jun 30, 2009 7:01 am King willy T & E Division 3—Provisions concerning building sites Sect: 17 Restrictions on builders' control of building sites: A domestic building contract does not give a builder a greater right to occupy a building site than that of a contractual licensee. Contractual licensee. That’s you & me. See my post in building a new house with several other good comments from other members. Can you tell me why you think it would be illigal to entre you own property? In fact you also have a right to ask the builder to leave your property if you want, but its not recomended. Go, look, be careful and co operate with them just to keep them happy. KW......... Thanks KW. I don't think it is illegal, the reason I asked is that the builder e-mailed me ad told me it was, in their words, "unlawful", for me to go on site. I can't possibly see how it can be unlawful, so thought I would post the q on here. I have a good relationship with the buidler, and they have been brilliant so far. It just ticked me off a little when I e-mailed them to tell them that the house was not secure, (even though we were at lock up months ago), and that next door had been burgled, then they tun around and tell me I'm in the wrong for checking the place out! Cheeky buggers. I wouldnt mind if they just said please don't go on site due to liability issues, but to tell me I'm being unlawful just annoyed me. Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 27Jun 30, 2009 8:47 am Just goes to show, anyone can hoodwink you by saying something is unlawful when it suits them. But look it up so you really know. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 28Jun 30, 2009 11:34 am Designcite Just thought I would let you know that if the client is providing their own appliances, it is up to them to have their own insurance as it is not covered under the builder's insurance. (That's in our case anyhows, not sure if it is for everyone else) My husband and I have an issue with this clause, as we hand over the appliances to them (the builder) in good faith and have no control over security as that is still their responsibility until handover, however it's our responsibility for our appliances So if I was a client checking out my place and found it unlocked over a weekend and it had my appliances in it I would not be impressed at all. Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 29Jun 30, 2009 6:08 pm Jaelee, Yeap, there you go every case is always so different. I understand you hesitation about handing these type of this over, but you need them installed right. Tricky one. Cheers David Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 30Jul 01, 2009 1:56 am T&V If you have or think you have a good relationship with your builder try to keep it, go with them on things like this. A lot of places are left open. Hey, even I have a look see to see what that builder is doing different than the other or get ideas and it not even my home. But I never go inside just look in the window or walk around the slab. Generally I go when tradies are there. They should tell me to leave none ever have. You should be concerned or your builder should, about it not being locked, because if there is vandal damage or theft they are responsible. That’s why they have the insurance or should have it. Things go “missing” all the time only to show up installed in the house in the next estate, funny that. Someone mentioned about the owner supplies appliances Yes; it’s at your risk. I’m sure you could get cover but the cost would not be worth it. Put them in at the very last day if you can. I personally feel, as do many others on this forum, owners should be given more respect with regard to access to their site. I understand the OH &S side of it, no problem. But I think the real issue is owners going too far with it. Wanting to take over the building & supervising of the home. Trying to do work they have no idea about and getting in the bloody way. Even I have had to except the fact I can’t go on site and put in a few extra noggins, a nail here & there. But I will be keeping an eye on the place like a hungry hawk. I feel I will have a few words from time to time with the builder. But as pointed out you get what you pay for, a volume builder building a volume home at a price. But I will be making sure I get that and a bit more. The O H & S thing is a bit wet and is over ridden by statutory law as per my last post. If a builder maintains a safe work place you should not get hurt anyway. The fact is it is hard to maintain a site in accordance with the laws and the penalties are harsh so they don’t take the risk. Im sure your builder will do a good job for you. KW………….. “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 31Jul 01, 2009 9:38 am On the O H & S subject I am surprised how many of the tradies work by themselves particularly the guys who installed the roof perlins and gutters etc, on some of the jobs I do I have to wear a Hi Vis vest and the risk of even getting a broken fingernail is probably less than winning last nights lotto! Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 32Jul 01, 2009 10:41 am I haven't read all the posts but i would like to advise that it is not Illegal for you to enter the site however there are laws pertaining to safety and liability. Most contracts have clauses that allow site visit by appointment. You should always organise a visit prior to just turning up on site. 99% of builders will allow a visit. "I never learned a thing until I finished school" - Unknown "You can get anything accomplished, If you don't mind who gets the credit" - Ned Hay Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 33Jul 01, 2009 11:04 am common courtesy is the way to go Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 34Jul 01, 2009 11:26 am onc_artisan common courtesy is the way to go Just to re-iterate....... It was a Saturday morning I went on-site because my neighbour had been burgled & I wanted to check our place was ok, I was surprised to find I could walk straight in! Our house has been at fix-out for 2 months, we have been paying 90% of our mortgage all this time Being a Saturday, I could not call the builder to ask them to meet me there to make sure the burglars had not affected our place. Common courtesy is all fine and well, but under the above circumstances an e-mail from the builder telling me I was 'unlawful' by entering was a bit strong I reckon? Anyway, so far it seems that yes - they don't like you on site on your own (fair enough) and there may be liability issues, (even though as the owner we have signed our liability rights away and indemnifies the builder against any losses or injury/death as a result of the owner). The contract states that you can arrange a visit with the supervisor, but no where does it state that you cannot go to site on your own. So far it seems that it is not, in fact, illegal? I don't want to stir a hornets nest with the builder as we have a good relationship and we're happy with their work, but I did take offence a little at the strong language in the e-mail, especially as it was a return e-mail from me telling them that the house is not secure and thieves are currently active in the area - and if it turns out that it is not actually illegal, then the e-mail they sent me is just plain wrong. I e-mailed them back yesterday to ask under what laws it is in fact 'unlawful', I have not heard back as yet. The comments about things going missing from site being the builders responsibility and not to worry etc are all well and good, but at the end of the day, if something goes missing and this causes a delay then that's more rent we have to pay out whilst it's sorted. Leaving an almost complete house, full of fixtures, totally unsecured is not acceptable in my book especially when we paid for 'lock-up'. As I have said before, I understand builders stand points on these matters as do I also understand people wanting to have a nosey of their house on a weekend. I have tried, as a rule, to respect the site access issues of the builder, however, the point of starting the thread was to find out if it was actually illegal and not just a 'please don't do it'. What I have issue with is if it is not illegal but the builders tell you it is, i.e. using the weight of the fact you believe you may be breaking the law by doing it. Surely that's not right? Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 35Jul 01, 2009 11:42 am Again, you are not breaking the law by entering the site. If there are delays; there should be compensation clauses in your contract so rent won't be an issue. Poor form by the builder's contractors/supervisor leaving the site open like that though. "I never learned a thing until I finished school" - Unknown "You can get anything accomplished, If you don't mind who gets the credit" - Ned Hay Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 36Jul 01, 2009 12:46 pm kid81 I haven't read all the posts but i would like to advise that it is not Illegal for you to enter the site however there are laws pertaining to safety and liability. Most contracts have clauses that allow site visit by appointment. You should always organise a visit prior to just turning up on site. 99% of builders will allow a visit. What happens if I want to have a casual stroll of my "new baby" to see how it's going on a lazy Sunday afternoon? Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 37Jul 01, 2009 12:52 pm you really shouldn't without arranging it with your builder. As i said; Whilst not illegal; There are liability; OS&H and other issues at stake. Not to mention your relationship with your builder. Your builder will be happy to walk you through if you organise it with him. ... ... ... ... ... ... What no one knows won't hurt them is one of my favourite sayings. "I never learned a thing until I finished school" - Unknown "You can get anything accomplished, If you don't mind who gets the credit" - Ned Hay Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 38Jul 01, 2009 3:03 pm The comments about things going missing from site being the builders responsibility and not to worry etc are all well and good, but at the end of the day, if something goes missing and this causes a delay then that's more rent we have to pay out whilst it's sorted. Leaving an almost complete house, full of fixtures, totally unsecured is not acceptable in my book especially when we paid for 'lock-up'. Good point about the delay in moving in. Also, the fact some other person has been in your new home stealling things is not a good feeling. You have acted in a very responsible manner in letting the builder know the door was not locked. I would do the same. IMO your builder should have responded a bit diffrently with a thank you and left out the unlawful part. IMO the reasion they do this is as I said to stop owners getting in the way and IMO stop them checking all the thinks that may not be done right. I too signed a document about access to my site. But I will be checking the doors at lock up. Hope you get to move in real soon and enjoy your new home. Regards KW................ “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: Is it 'illegal' to enter your own site? 40Jul 01, 2009 5:45 pm Noob I guess if thats what your standard HIA contracts says then you best not go near your site till your home is finished. Cheers KW........... “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. 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