Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Govt to build national broadband network 21Apr 07, 2009 10:18 pm i was very happy to hear the news today i had alot of bogans ask me why this is important, i think some of them are still yet to have an email address let alone own a computer but yes this is a monumental announcement, unfortunatly this may go in the too hard basket as the gov have failed before to release ftth. it was tried in canberra to have fttn wasnt marketed well and they ran out of money mid way! i am still positive south korea is working on a similar plan by 2012 to have everyhome connected on ftth. this will mean lag free gaming (in comparasion to what we endure now) instany access to anywebsite, hd streaming, in home conference calls, higher security, and hopefully lower costs due to competition. above all the best thing is that telstra will no longer have a dictatorship of our communications, and greedy line rental costs will be a thing of the 20th century. -Nathan 2nd-Fix | Blog Building with Desyn Homes previously with the insolvent [url=https://www.facebook.com/7NewsAdelaide/videos/1162546323776021/]Endeavour Homes[/url] Re: Govt to build national broadband network 22Apr 07, 2009 10:20 pm wakeboardandy What you are saying is the goverment is starting up a new Telstra with the money they made from selling Telstra... Anyway, good luck them getting this through the senate. And it wouldn't be the labor party if they didn't go and put the country in massive debt.. Unfortunately not really many other alternatives but to do so, at least they have a undertaking of building the network then selling it (ie Telstra mark 2) The key differences here is the new company wont be selling it's product to end uses but rather just wholesale access to ISP's who would then add content or not and sell to end users. Bigpond has been the big problem with Telstra, and the conflict it has created in providing wholesale access to other ISP's. Put it this either the government did this or Australia would behind the rest of the first world countries by ten to twenty years in terms of broadband. America, Japan, Korea, UK, Germany ect ect have been rolling out FTTH for a few years now, Australia was going to rollout FTTN a inferior technology that requires the installation of "nodes" which cost 30 grand each (Optus estimated 67,000 would be needed for Australia) and uses copper for the last mile. If the FTTN went ahead no private company would willing throw out all those nodes any time soon so realisticly we would have only caught up to the rest of the world 10 to 20 years later. As for getting through the senate the greens wont be a problem as this is exactly what they were advocating for (the FTTN with nodes needed a lot of cool and hense power), and one independant has already said he loves the idea (not Xeno the other one) so all they have to do is convince Xeno and he has already proven he can be encouraged through incentives (first place in the mainland to get it?). Re: Govt to build national broadband network 23Apr 07, 2009 10:30 pm People are quick to bash Telstra but who is the only company in this country willing to invest real money in the bush? Who built the next G network in record times and now has a 21mbps wireless network. (not bad for a company that apparently doesn't build networks??) Telstra will continue to move forward with broadband in the country.. what the government is talking about, Telstra is doing.. that is the difference. I'm all for competition and so is Telstra. There is over 300 isp's now and Telstra is still No 1. So customers are still prepared to pay for a service that simply works! Re: Govt to build national broadband network 24Apr 07, 2009 10:33 pm Thought I would explain the differnce between FTTN and FTTH Current situation is that we have exchanges which supply ADSL through copper (local loop) to the household the signal (speed) degrades after a certain length of copper (current adsl2+ speeds can be up to 24mbps but the average is 9mbps) a exchange currently can cover upto a 5 km circle. FTTN (fibre to the node) is sort of like mini exchanges bringing the ADSL equipment through the use of cabinets (about the size of a double fridge) closer to homes ie instead of one exchange covering a area there would be 5 nodes (feed by fibre and spread out) which cover up to 1.5 km circle with homes still connecting to the node through copper. This would bring most people conections closer to the max ADSL2 speed of 24 mbps. This technology really isn't upgradable (except VDSL2 which max 50mbps and there is nothing after that). FTTH (fibre to the home) Brings a fibre connection directly from the echange to the home, avoiding the nodes and the use ADSL equipment and the old copper in the ground. This is upgradable in the future currently FTTH is providing 4 Gps to business customers. FTTN is a stop gap measure and a half arsed way to do it FTTH there is nothing better, it the best possible technology to use now and the forseeable future. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 25Apr 07, 2009 10:37 pm ausfatcat FTTH (fibre to the home) Brings a fibre connection directly from the echange to the home, avoiding the nodes and the use ADSL equipment and the old copper in the ground. This is upgradable in the future currently FTTH is providing 4 Gps to business customers. FTTN is a stop gap measure and a half arsed way to do it FTTH there is nothing better, it the best possible technology to use now and the forseeable future. Yep FTTH is definitely the way to go. I look forward to moving into my house in the next month or so and getting 100mbps speeds by the end of the year at the lastest on my FTTH connection.... To further prove my point, Telstra is doing this now.. not talking about doing it. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 26Apr 07, 2009 10:47 pm wakeboardandy I'm all for competition and so is Telstra. There is over 300 isp's now and Telstra is still No 1. So customers are still prepared to pay for a service that simply works! Look I don't blame them at all, they are a private company and want to make money and as much as they possibly can (like every other business). But a couple of points. There natural monopoly came with conditions thats why they invest in the bush (the USO). The next G network was built by Ericcson on behalf of Telstra in record time. Optus and Vodaphone are covering the bush with nextG stuff as well 95% coverage and 90%, it's a competative field with alternatives. Fixed lines services are not and this is what this new network is about. 21mbps wireless netowrk is pretty much useless when there is no modems out yet that go above 8mbps. Telstra is not for competition (and have proven this time and time again) in the fixed line area they don't want any competition at all they want to keep all there fixed line revenue (as earlier I don't blame them) a competitor wants to put in equipment Telstra takes them to court, a customer uses anther ISP and line fault happens Telstra response time to fix it is three times the amount than if the customer is with bigpond (maintaining the network was a condition of sale). Graham Samuels head of the ACCC made the statement that half of all cases brought to the ACCC was about Telstra, this is a organisation that handles used car dealers, banks, and most retail outlets. Telstra has a market share of 50% (a shrinking consistantly for a number of years) in broadband numerous reports across the world recognise this as more to do with "stick to what I know" syndrome. The latest nelson survey into broadband stated that a majority of bigpond customers didn't even look at other ISP's plans and prices. As for reliability of the network Bigpond is only has marginally up time than other providers. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 27Apr 07, 2009 10:55 pm wakeboardandy Yep FTTH is definitely the way to go. I look forward to moving into my house in the next month or so and getting 100mbps speeds by the end of the year at the lastest on my FTTH connection.... To further prove my point, Telstra is doing this now.. not talking about doing it. Where? you mean velocity!!! and you bloody well pay through the nose for it too and it is only in new estates where it is cheaper to put fibre in than copper and you can't choose any other ISP apart from Telstra. Telstra charges developers additional dollars to install it over copper as well. Look at internodes FTTH prices/speeds compared to Bigponds velocities. Velocity 25 GB uploads Counted $149.95 /mo (20mbps) Internode 25 GB uploads not counted $69.95 (25mbps) Velocity excess charges are $150 a gigabyte, internodes is $5 a gigabyte as well Internode provide FTTH through Opticomm which some developers choose to install FTTH rather then Telstra, so internode price and system doesn't use anything Telstra. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 28Apr 07, 2009 10:59 pm Quote: There natural monopoly came with conditions thats why they invest in the bush (the USO). The next G network was built by Ericcson on behalf of Telstra in record time. Optus and Vodaphone are covering the bush with nextG stuff as well 95% coverage and 90%, it's a competative field with alternatives. Fixed lines services are not and this is what this new network is about. 21mbps wireless netowrk is pretty much useless when there is no modems out yet that go above 8mbps. Telstra didn't have any conditions on their mobile network. They chose to build the next g network and had nothing to do with the USO. Also optus and vodafones network whilst is looks close on percentage is more than 3 times smaller than Next G in actual ground coverage. Also Telstra do have 21mbps modems and they do support burst speeds of up to 21mbps. I have one and have recorded personally a top speed of 14mbps. Quote: Telstra has a market share of 50% (a shrinking consistantly for a number of years) in broadband numerous reports across the world recognise this as more to do with "stick to what I know" syndrome. The latest nelson survey into broadband stated that a majority of bigpond customers didn't even look at other ISP's plans and prices. It is not a syndrome, it is called being happy with the service and support they receive. If it was such an overpriced and poor service they wouldn't have such a large market share. A 50% market share in broadband when there is over 300 ISP's is quite impressive. Another anology to look at is, when you are happy in your job, do you constantly go out looking and seeking a new job? No you don't, but if you are unhappy then you most certainly do. So majority of Telstra customers are happy. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 29Apr 07, 2009 11:02 pm ausfatcat Where? you mean velocity!!! and you bloody well pay through the nose for it too and it is only in new estates where it is cheaper to put fibre in than copper and you can't choose any other ISP apart from Telstra. Telstra charges developers additional dollars to install it over copper as well. Look at internodes FTTH prices/speeds compared to Bigponds velocities. Velocity 25 GB uploads Counted $149.95 /mo (20mbps) Internode 25 GB uploads not counted $69.95 (25mbps) Velocity excess charges are $150 a gigabyte, internodes is $5 a gigabyte as well Internode provide FTTH through Opticomm which some developers choose to install FTTH rather then Telstra, so internode price and system doesn't use anything Telstra. Velocity is a great service and once agan will be 100mbps by the end of the year and will be aligned with cable prices. I would be suprised to find anyone unhappy with their bigpond cable service and price. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 30Apr 07, 2009 11:03 pm wakeboardandy Telstra didn't have any conditions on their mobile network. They chose to build the next g network and had nothing to do with the USO. Also optus and vodafones network whilst is looks close on percentage is more than 3 times smaller than Next G in actual ground coverage. Also Telstra do have 21mbps modems and they do support burst speeds of up to 21mbps. I have one and have recorded personally a top speed of 14mbps. Correct but this isn't about mobile networks where there is competiton it's about fixed line networks where there is no competition on any meaningfull scale. wakeboardandy It is not a syndrome, it is called being happy with the service and support they receive. If it was such an overpriced and poor service they wouldn't have such a large market share. A 50% market share in broadband when there is over 300 ISP's is quite impressive. Another anology to look at is, when you are happy in your job, do you constantly go out looking and seeking a new job? No you don't, but if you are unhappy then you most certainly do. So majority of Telstra customers are happy. It's a case of people not knowing better, Telstra price gourages just compare there prices.... I am guessing you are a Telstra employee??? Re: Govt to build national broadband network 31Apr 07, 2009 11:05 pm wakeboardandy Velocity is a great service and once agan will be 100mbps by the end of the year and will be aligned with cable prices. I would be suprised to find anyone unhappy with their bigpond cable service and price. What they are the most complained about company. All opticom estates will be 100mbps now as well. There Telstra prices aren't great anywhere except mobile where there is competition. Don't forget Telstra is the most profitable major telecommunications company in the world. On anther point why does Telstra cable even exist? Re: Govt to build national broadband network 32Apr 07, 2009 11:10 pm ausfatcat What they are the most complained about company. All opticom estates will be 100mbps soon as well. There Telstra prices aren't great anywhere except mobile where there is competition. Don't forget Telstra is the most profitable major telecommunications company in the world. On anther point why does Telstra cable even exist? Speak to some bigpond cable customers.. or check out whirlpool.net.au, there is plenty of people that choose to have bigpond cable where they could easily go adsl2+ with many other carriers. But they choose bigpond due to the speeds and performance they deliver.. and these are you gaming geeks that do look at all carriers! Don't forget also, many people wouldn't have adsl2+ if it wasn't for Telstra... The other ISP's just cherry pick which exchanges make the most money. They are not interested in putting their dslams into smaller exchanges. For example I am on the Montrose exchange enjoying ADSL2+... but only Telstra offer it because no other carrier wants to invest the money to put their own dslams in. These other providers are quick to blame Telstra, but they don't invest in your country's infrastructure like Telstra do. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 33Apr 08, 2009 12:08 pm Can anyone explain why do we need it at all? What is the value in that? What we've currently got is enough in my opinion and it is improving every year. How will it help economy apart from creating jobs during network building period? What I mean is: do we really need to spend this huge amount of money that we don't have for something that we don't really need? There are number of much more pressing needs in infrastructure to invest into (e.g. build a new dam in Victoria). Re: Govt to build national broadband network 34Apr 08, 2009 1:32 pm Yev_ Can anyone explain why do we need it at all? What is the value in that? What we've currently got is enough in my opinion and it is improving every year. How will it help economy apart from creating jobs during network building period? What I mean is: do we really need to spend this huge amount of money that we don't have for something that we don't really need? There are number of much more pressing needs in infrastructure to invest into (e.g. build a new dam in Victoria). If victoria needs a new dam the state goverment would sort that out. as for "national" infrastructure... that is federal goverment. as for need... at the moment we have one of the worst national commnications networks mainly due to our population size and density.. up and the east coast that is fne but once you head inland another storey... hence why atm it is hard for everyone to get boardband, yet people feel they are entititled to having the same infrastructure as those in the Big citys. I agree everyone shoud have access to the fastest way to get Info. I could go on ad on but i won't... Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Govt to build national broadband network 35Apr 08, 2009 3:02 pm All pie in the sky stuff... Ruddnet will never get off the ground and we will get a half arsed attempt. I'll see how the Tasmanian experience goes before going all happy happy joy joy. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 36Apr 08, 2009 8:27 pm wakeboardandy There is over 300 isp's now and Telstra is still No 1. So customers are still prepared to pay for a service that simply works! you said WHAT? telstra.. number 1? (i think youll find they are number 5) before reading your other posts i was going to comment and ask if you have ever heard of whirlpool forums, then i read what else you wrote trying to defend the most useless telco company in australia. yes they are the company that does provide us with telecommunications through out the 20th century and for the best of it they did a good job, good job making lots of money off the australian public; simply because they dont know any better. i only need to remind people of the lovely adsl 3 gig cap for $89.95 and locked people in for a 2 YEAR CONTRACT!! and they held the market until others stood up and pushed in competition. they did the same with adsl2 they did the same with wireless they did the same with velocity they cut the perfectly working CDMA network and replaced it nextG meaning everyone had to go and chuck out there fones and replace them. (some upgrade offers were given, not to all.) nextG didnt work properly for 2 years. telstra have you over a barrel, when it comes to regional coverage, i work at sea and have given them plenty of coin.. why is it that simply because they put the infrastructure in and horde it for themselves, and tax it on their customers. even now we pay $30 bucks a month just to rent the line in the ground from them, to provide internet from a completely different company, then they pay their dues to telstra for the DSLAM. competition breeds improvement, lower prices and market choice. i hope telstra are cut out of this deal, their customer service blows.. try asking them to fix a line when theres static on the dial tone in which they reply "sir, there doesnt appear to be anything wrong with your line, perhaps you have wireless handset in the house that is interfering" i kno what i would do with $3 billion a year profit... -Nathan 2nd-Fix | Blog Building with Desyn Homes previously with the insolvent [url=https://www.facebook.com/7NewsAdelaide/videos/1162546323776021/]Endeavour Homes[/url] Re: Govt to build national broadband network 37Apr 08, 2009 8:37 pm 2nd-Fix | Blog Building with Desyn Homes previously with the insolvent [url=https://www.facebook.com/7NewsAdelaide/videos/1162546323776021/]Endeavour Homes[/url] Re: Govt to build national broadband network 38Apr 08, 2009 8:54 pm FireFox you said WHAT? telstra.. number 1? (i think youll find they are number 5) Definitely no 1 (where the hell did you get no.5 from???????).. they have nearly 50% market share.. which is incredible with this much competition in internet in this country.. Re: Govt to build national broadband network 39Apr 08, 2009 9:09 pm Yev_ Can anyone explain why do we need it at all? What is the value in that? What we've currently got is enough in my opinion and it is improving every year. It wont improve anymore from where it is now, theres no further technology available to the coppernetwork without a major investment (except vdsl2 but that not a big increase in performance). You may be one of the people that lives relativly close to an exchange and can get decent speeds, others can't, many can't get basic adsl let alone adsl2 there are blackspots, and the copper in the ground is slowly deteriorating (being under maintained by 2 billion a year according to Telstra). We are several years behind the rest of the world now!! Let alone if we did nothing Telstra's report into the NBN stated a FTTN network (note we are getting FTTH which is better) will generate between 200 to 300 million a month of economic benefits. Thats not taking into consideration future applications like HD video/tv on demand, medical, smart metreing are some of the current stuff needing the incrased speed. **** I mean 15 years ago who needed anything more than dialup? Re: Govt to build national broadband network 40Apr 08, 2009 9:42 pm wakeboardandy FireFox you said WHAT? telstra.. number 1? (i think youll find they are number 5) Definitely no 1 (where the hell did you get no.5 from???????).. they have nearly 50% market share.. which is incredible with this much competition in internet in this country.. Most likey firefox quoted this list of what Whingepool users have as their ISP's http://bc.whirlpool.net.au/ Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Thank you so much everyone. This all makes a lot of sense. I guess when you talk to a builder who butters up everything to look very polished, you get to start believing… 7 17588 Hi, did you get any money from insurance? if you did, does it match what you've already paid the builders? 3 9565 Hi We have finally decided to complete a KDR on our corner plot in NE Melbourne suburbs. Given its a corner plot approx. 400 sqm just a standard design may not fit the… 0 8556 |