Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 22Feb 22, 2009 11:15 pm ed @ EcoClassic The science is irrefutable... which as always, just like cigarettes and cancer, is refuted. High voltage power lines attract radon daughters, Ed Sorry, the science that I'm aware of does not support this view. May I refer you to, for example: DE Jeffers: Comment on the paper: High-voltage overhead lines and radon daughter deposition. Int J Rad Biol 73:579-582, 1998. "Overhead lines screen the natural fields in their vicinity and so their presence will tend to reduce rather than enhance radon daughter deposition" And there are any number of studies showing that various animals penned under transmission lines do not exhibit significant changes to their melatonin levels. As an example, I'd refer you to: JM Lee et al: Melatonin and puberty in female lambs exposed to EMF: a replicate study. Bioelectromag 16:119-123, 1995. I'm aware of a number of studies that claimed to show links, but each of these studies has been refuted subsequently. For the sake of those members of the forum that do live in these situations, it is important to provide accurate, up-to-date, fact based information, no matter how justifiable our own personal emotions might be. And I unreservedly apologies. EcoClassic, if my comment about lightning protection caused any pain - that would never be my intention, but even for any unintentional hurt I am truly sorry. Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 23Feb 23, 2009 4:54 am Fiffaro ed @ EcoClassic The science is irrefutable... which as always, just like cigarettes and cancer, is refuted. High voltage power lines attract radon daughters, Ed Sorry, the science that I'm aware of does not support this view. May I refer you to, for example: DE Jeffers: Comment on the paper: High-voltage overhead lines and radon daughter deposition. Int J Rad Biol 73:579-582, 1998. "Overhead lines screen the natural fields in their vicinity and so their presence will tend to reduce rather than enhance radon daughter deposition" And there are any number of studies showing that various animals penned under transmission lines do not exhibit significant changes to their melatonin levels. As an example, I'd refer you to: JM Lee et al: Melatonin and puberty in female lambs exposed to EMF: a replicate study. Bioelectromag 16:119-123, 1995. I'm aware of a number of studies that claimed to show links, but each of these studies has been refuted subsequently. For the sake of those members of the forum that do live in these situations, it is important to provide accurate, up-to-date, fact based information, no matter how justifiable our own personal emotions might be. And I unreservedly apologies. EcoClassic, if my comment about lightning protection caused any pain - that would never be my intention, but even for any unintentional hurt I am truly sorry. I think it unfair to suggest that the situation "is" safe surrounding HV power lines when we can concede conflicting in information, the potential risks are too high, and the potential consequences too dire. Every study is performed for a reason with differing interests represented, every study has an ego factor and is open to errors in fact and interpretation. Most studies are funded by interested parties. I deny your assertion that every study, or even 10% of the studies disprove that HV power lines do attract radon daughters. I also think cigarettes cause lung cancer - I am sure many members on this forum smoke. I am also sure that all the studies through the years that disproved this were funded by the tobacco companies and some are still believed today. But for me, most of all, seeing a predicted outcome (death from lung cancer) and reading supporting evidence I am convinced EMR attracts radon daughters - IMO irrefutable. I studied this after the incidents and I was the person in charge. So, in summary, IMO, take no chances. Oh, and don't smoke. No need to apologise, humour is always welcome, life can be difficult sometimes and we need to lighten up... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 24Mar 05, 2009 11:04 am EcoClassic, there is a significant difference between this topic and the cigarette link to cancer and other diseases that you've made reference to a number of times.
I'm old enough to remember being told, way back in the early 70s, of research which showed a statistically significant correlation between smoking and shorter life expectancy. (I remember some literature from a particular group linking each cigarette smoked to 18 minutes less life expectancy.) Even though the cigarette companies were doing there best with FUD, particularly challenging the scientific community to provide a scientifically provable pathway to explain this, the correlation was there and was publicly available. Ultimately, the overwhelming number of non-industry sponsored studies linked smoking with shorter life expectancy. The independent studies in the field of HT transmission lines and health have not established such a correlation, indeed, those studies that I've waded through have returned results with no significant statistical correlation. The overwhelming number of non-industry sponsored peer reviewed studies show no significant correlation between exposure to fields from transmission lines and shorter life expectancy. That is a very important difference to bear in mind when trying to draw parallels with the smoking and health debate. Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 25Mar 05, 2009 11:39 am Tobacco companies knew over 30 years ago that their products were harmful but kept ****** to people about their affect.
Thats why they were sued for billions a few years ago, they actively and knowingly * to people. Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 26Mar 06, 2009 11:02 pm How about this.
Is a glass half empty or half full, every single thing can be debated and argued for both sides. At the end of the day, if somebody said to me their is a 1% risk that living there would increase the chance of a health ailment, whatever it may be for my daughter I would not even considerate it. From what i can see and the research that debates both sides I would be pretty confident that there would be some risk no matter how small it may be, and for the sake of saving a dollar you can forget it. If someone said that there is an increased chance of risk that if you cross the road at a particualr location you will be hit by a car, compared with walking an extra 50m to cross the road at a pedestrian crossing would you do it ? Your family isn't worth gambling on, let people that are confident in their beliefs / knowledge live there. They may come off all right in the long run, but I bet they some doubt have it in the back of their minds! Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 27Mar 07, 2009 9:20 am Fiffaro EcoClassic, there is a significant difference between this topic and the cigarette link to cancer and other diseases that you've made reference to a number of times. I'm old enough to remember being told, way back in the early 70s, of research which showed a statistically significant correlation between smoking and shorter life expectancy. (I remember some literature from a particular group linking each cigarette smoked to 18 minutes less life expectancy.) Even though the cigarette companies were doing there best with FUD, particularly challenging the scientific community to provide a scientifically provable pathway to explain this, the correlation was there and was publicly available. Ultimately, the overwhelming number of non-industry sponsored studies linked smoking with shorter life expectancy. The independent studies in the field of HT transmission lines and health have not established such a correlation, indeed, those studies that I've waded through have returned results with no significant statistical correlation. The overwhelming number of non-industry sponsored peer reviewed studies show no significant correlation between exposure to fields from transmission lines and shorter life expectancy. That is a very important difference to bear in mind when trying to draw parallels with the smoking and health debate. I totally disagree... I am old enough to have lost my dad to lung cancer (cigarettes) in the 70s and a friend to lung cancer (EMR related in the 90s). People were saying the same thing back then about cigarettes as you say about EMR today. The truth will out... as it did with cigarettes. This is my opinion. The friend died in exactly the same role as his predecessor who died. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 28Mar 07, 2009 4:45 pm Fiffaro EcoClassic, there is a significant difference between this topic and the cigarette link to cancer and other diseases that you've made reference to a number of times. I could be wrong, but I don't think I have mentioned any other disease or diseases even once. EMR, I believe causes lung cancer... it may be responsible for other diseases, I have no opinion on that, but it would not surprise me. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 29Mar 08, 2009 12:42 am ed @ EcoClassic I totally disagree... I am old enough to have lost my dad to lung cancer (cigarettes) in the 70s and a friend to lung cancer (EMR related in the 90s). People were saying the same thing back then about cigarettes as you say about EMR today. I'm sorry to hear that smoking has touched your life in such a matter. Perhaps, after all, I was lucky that I was brought up in a family that were members of a fundamentalist American protestant church. That church ran, from the early 60s, programmes to help people who wanted to quit smoking, and I was exposed from a young age to studies which related smoking to shorter life expectancy. It might be, that because of this background, I've been aware of the association from a young age. It is unfortunate that it took so long for the general population to catch up with the scientific research. That does not mean, though, that the information was not readily available. You might like to look at the article on Wikipedia on the health effects of smoking. Check in the history section. Here we see that: "In 1929, Fritz Lickint of Dresden, Germany, published a formal statistical evidence of a lung cancer–tobacco link, based on a study showing that lung cancer sufferers were likely to be smokers". It is simply matter to verify that studies linking smoking to shorter life expectancy were published back then. I stand by my claim that there is a marked difference between smoking and exposure to the fields from transmission lines: with one there has been research indicating strong correlation between exposure and shorter life expectancy even when the tobacco companies where using FUD to try to deny a link, and with the other there has been no strong correlation shown by any peer reviewed article that I'm aware of. By the way, did you read, in the article you cited about radon daughters, the phrase: "and it is suggested that the phenomenon is not of epidemiological consequence."? Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 30Mar 08, 2009 1:02 am hunts01 At the end of the day, if somebody said to me their is a 1% risk that living there would increase the chance of a health ailment, whatever it may be for my daughter I would not even considerate it. As humans we have a very emotive reaction to risk that seems to overshadow our understanding of the real relative risk. Why is it that we might avoid something with a one percent increased risk of a causing a health ailment, yet the vast majority of us do not avoid behavioral that causes a 60 to 80 % increased risk of colorectal cancer? (see Cummings, JH; Bingham SA (1998). "Diet and the prevention of cancer". BMJ: 1636–40. PMID 9848907. http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/.) And that is just one example of this type of behaviour. We humans are funny people. Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 32Mar 09, 2009 8:41 am Fiffaro I was exposed from a young age to studies which related smoking to shorter life expectancy. Me too, contemporaneously (at the same time as... ) with you but at a not so young age... of course the information was available - way back. People were in denial due to their addiction but also because they had the claims that it caused lung cancer and they had many "peer level scientific studies" contradicting this (as we now know) truth. It's easy to choose the "truth" you want to believe when you have choices. People know today and it is even published on the packets - but they still smoke. That's their choice - but they don't give their kids cigarettes... and most probably may not put they kids in close proximity to power lines - that's why the land is cheaper. Fiffaro ....there has been no strong correlation shown by any peer reviewed article that I'm aware of. You would find it if you wanted to, you have a very biased view IMO. Do you either live in close proximity to power lines or do you know someone who does? Or do you have an emotional link to the industry? Fiffaro By the way, did you read, in the article you cited about radon daughters, the phrase: "and it is suggested that the phenomenon is not of epidemiological consequence."? No, I have no interest in the debate other than I believe that both sides should be given an airing. There are 2 sets of "truths", you and I can debate forever, but we are not experts so it would go on ad infinitum each picking a new "truth" to hurl into the debate. I saw 2 events which I did not believe to be a coincidence. I have researched and read as much as I need to on both sides and what I read convinced me of an EMR related causation for lung cancer which at the very least is a potential risk, I don't plan to live near power lines. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 33Mar 09, 2009 11:50 am Ok all this technical talk is getting me confused. If a house is around 400m-500m, is there a risk? Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 34Mar 09, 2009 1:20 pm ed @ EcoClassic [ contemporaneously....epidemiological Cmon Ed, I don't want to have to refer to a dictionary when using Homeone For everyone like me... here are the definitions: contemporaneous /kntemprayniss/ • adjective existing at or occurring in the same period of time. epidemiology /eppideemiollji/ • noun the study of the incidence and distribution of diseases and other factors relating to health. Ah, now that makes sense... ICK So glad the building is over, never again. Loooove our house, but still not quite sure it was worth all of the stress they put us through! Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 35Mar 09, 2009 1:58 pm wonderland Ok all this technical talk is getting me confused. If a house is around 400m-500m, is there a risk? Apparently that depends on if you can get radon daughters to travel that far... Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 36Mar 09, 2009 2:56 pm wonderland Ok all this technical talk is getting me confused. If a house is around 400m-500m, is there a risk? No... "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 37Mar 09, 2009 2:58 pm ICK ed @ EcoClassic [ contemporaneously....epidemiological Cmon Ed, I don't want to have to refer to a dictionary when using Homeone For everyone like me... here are the definitions: contemporaneous /kntemprayniss/ • adjective existing at or occurring in the same period of time. Ah, now that makes sense... I was going to write "at the same time" but it didn't mean the same... what's wrong with a bit of bs? Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 38Mar 09, 2009 3:06 pm Nothing at all, BS is brilliant! I just like it when things are dumbed down a bit
Another question about powerlines close to houses but referring to the visual aspect more than physical effect, someone once told me that is it planned that all powerlines (you know those big ugly ones) are eventually going to be put underground. Were they pulling my leg??? ICK So glad the building is over, never again. Loooove our house, but still not quite sure it was worth all of the stress they put us through! Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 39Mar 09, 2009 3:10 pm ICK Another question about powerlines close to houses but referring to the visual aspect more than physical effect, someone once told me that is it planned that all powerlines (you know those big ugly ones) are eventually going to be put underground. Were they pulling my leg??? In the short term at least i.e. the next 50 years, then yes they are. It's just not economically feasible to put HV lines under ground. I could see it become more and more common for residential 240V lines, but the extra cost just can't be met for HV. In the long term I suspect they'll have perfected superconducting materials and could then put them all underground without any issues :p There's been some big developments in that area in the last few years. Re: Hi, and question about high voltage power lines 40Mar 09, 2009 3:11 pm ICK Nothing at all, BS is brilliant! I just like it when things are dumbed down a bit Another question about powerlines close to houses but referring to the visual aspect more than physical effect, someone once told me that is it planned that all powerlines (you know those big ugly ones) are eventually going to be put underground. Were they pulling my leg??? :oops: Yes, too expensive - there was a big furore over the Richmond power lines about 10 yrs ago, and they were put underground. But it makes no difference to the risk... in fact underground they are likely to be closer... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 It will be neat but you won't have much freeboard. At least they are not weep holes. Are you in a high intensity rainfall region? The regulatory slope is only required… 3 8280 Thanks mate. Yeah good points! Leaning towards Option 3 to get a bit extra space in the cabinets but not going too crazy high (and expensive). Would require a mini… 13 39742 Would also like an opinion from anyone that has used xcem over hebel for floors. Thanks 1 14238 |