Hebel + steel frame vs brick+ timber frame

Bk3064 · Apr 09, 2024 7:55 am

Hello everyone

We are planning to build 2 storey home in Brisbane inner north. We finalised two quotes from two custom builders. They are about same price with similar inclusions. However builder 1 is providing steel frames with Hebel for downstairs and builder 2 providing brick with timber frames

What do you reckon is best , ideally from my research steel frame with brick is ideal option and either of them won't work that combination

Anyone here have any suggestions?

Thanks

DraftRoom · Apr 09, 2024 1:38 pm

Personally I’m not a fan of steel (as a building designer) for thermal performance as steel is highly conductive and thermal bridging needs to be considered and controlled with thermal breaks, and from a sustainability point of view.

If you’re concerned about termites, you can get timber frames and trusses with H2-F treatment, in addition to a physical barrier like Kordon, which has a lifetime warranty if maintained.

Hope this helps!

Bk3064 · Apr 10, 2024 7:06 am

DraftRoom

Personally I’m not a fan of steel (as a building designer) for thermal performance as steel is highly conductive and thermal bridging needs to be considered and controlled with thermal breaks, and from a sustainability point of view.

If you’re concerned about termites, you can get timber frames and trusses with H2-F treatment, in addition to a physical barrier like Kordon, which has a lifetime warranty if maintained.

Hope this helps!

Thank you , also heard that steel frames make knocking noise ?

Do you have any experience with Hebel? Is it durable as bricks + rendering

DraftRoom · Apr 10, 2024 7:27 am

Bk3064

DraftRoom

Personally I’m not a fan of steel (as a building designer) for thermal performance as steel is highly conductive and thermal bridging needs to be considered and controlled with thermal breaks, and from a sustainability point of view.

If you’re concerned about termites, you can get timber frames and trusses with H2-F treatment, in addition to a physical barrier like Kordon, which has a lifetime warranty if maintained.

Hope this helps!

Thank you , also heard that steel frames make knocking noise ?

Do you have any experience with Hebel? Is it durable as bricks + rendering

You’re welcome, I’ve heard steel frames can make ticking noises with thermal expansion or contraction, though I have never personally experienced it.

We recently completed a small project on the Sunshine Coast that was steel frame and Heble construction and it turned out really well. See link below for some project photos:

https://www.draftroom.com.au/projects/k ... y-dwelling

stefcep · Apr 10, 2024 7:52 pm

Timber frame with brick veneer is what I would choose.. The one advantage hebel has is that its cheaper if you want rendered walls. Rendered Hebel is now approaching the same price as face brick in Victoria. It has worse noise insulation, is brittle and more prone to visible cracks if the house moves on reactive soil (although this can happen with brick).

Bk3064 · Apr 11, 2024 12:08 am

stefcep

Timber frame with brick veneer is what I would choose.. The one advantage hebel has is that its cheaper if you want rendered walls. Rendered Hebel is now approaching the same price as face brick in Victoria. It has worse noise insulation, is brittle and more prone to visible cracks if the house moves on reactive soil (although this can happen with brick).

Thanks I had similar feedback from lot of people . I think with steel frame hanging heavy items is not recommended I am not sure how much truth in that

Bk3064 · Apr 11, 2024 12:10 am

DraftRoom

Bk3064

DraftRoom

Personally I’m not a fan of steel (as a building designer) for thermal performance as steel is highly conductive and thermal bridging needs to be considered and controlled with thermal breaks, and from a sustainability point of view.

If you’re concerned about termites, you can get timber frames and trusses with H2-F treatment, in addition to a physical barrier like Kordon, which has a lifetime warranty if maintained.

Hope this helps!

Thank you , also heard that steel frames make knocking noise ?

Do you have any experience with Hebel? Is it durable as bricks + rendering

You’re welcome, I’ve heard steel frames can make ticking noises with thermal expansion or contraction, though I have never personally experienced it.

We recently completed a small project on the Sunshine Coast that was steel frame and Heble construction and it turned out really well. See link below for some project photos:

https://www.draftroom.com.au/projects/k ... y-dwelling

Looks amazing, however I think for double story application I think noise matters , we have a patio which makes ticking noises all the time, some times they are as loud as someone threw a big stone . If we get similar noises with steel then it's lot of ticking noises

Bk3064 · Apr 17, 2024 7:34 pm

Thank you every one for you input , after a lot of research and reading so many blogs decided to go with timber and brick as its the most safest option

Ashington Homes · Apr 18, 2024 4:52 am

Bk3064

stefcep

Timber frame with brick veneer is what I would choose.. The one advantage hebel has is that its cheaper if you want rendered walls. Rendered Hebel is now approaching the same price as face brick in Victoria. It has worse noise insulation, is brittle and more prone to visible cracks if the house moves on reactive soil (although this can happen with brick).

Thanks I had similar feedback from lot of people . I think with steel frame hanging heavy items is not recommended I am not sure how much truth in that

This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating

Bimbob · Jul 14, 2024 12:22 pm

Some metal frame companies will provide magnetic fixings that allow you to mount items without the need for mechanical fixings.

Ashington Homes · Jul 15, 2024 5:58 am

Bimbob

Some metal frame companies will provide magnetic fixings that allow you to mount items without the need for mechanical fixings.

You can't fix joinery to steel frames with magnets.

What I am talking about are items like wall hung vanities, desks or buffet units that people like in their homes these days.

The steel frames are essentially C channels made out of extremely thin steel ( similar thickness to metal roof sheets).

And when you try and attach anything, the screws are only getting around 2mm of purchase so they can not carry any weight. Where as with a 90 x 45m timber frame you can get 90mm of purchase with screws.

And the steel framing industry in Sydney is full of unlicensed cowboys at the moment. So just from my own experience I think steel frames are the worst. There is literally no actual benefit to them when comparing to site cut timber other than the gyprockers love how straight they are, but every other trade hates them.

stefcep · Jul 16, 2024 10:49 am

For further information, its going to cost me $200 per square meter to install and render 126 square meters of top flor hebel.

For comparison ground floor bricks up to 3.2 meters high $175 per square meters material and labour incl using Melbourne Yering bricks.

Next house I build will be wall on wall brick all the way up.

stefcep · Jul 16, 2024 10:58 am

Ashington Homes

Bimbob

Some metal frame companies will provide magnetic fixings that allow you to mount items without the need for mechanical fixings.

You can't fix joinery to steel frames with magnets.

What I am talking about are items like wall hung vanities, desks or buffet units that people like in their homes these days.

The steel frames are essentially C channels made out of extremely thin steel ( similar thickness to metal roof sheets).

And when you try and attach anything, the screws are only getting around 2mm of purchase so they can not carry any weight. Where as with a 90 x 45m timber frame you can get 90mm of purchase with screws.

And the steel framing industry in Sydney is full of unlicensed cowboys at the moment. So just from my own experience I think steel frames are the worst. There is literally no actual benefit to them when comparing to site cut timber other than the gyprockers love how straight they are, but every other trade hates them.

I've gone for pre-fab walls. I did it because I wanted to remove the idiot factor from the construction on site , control theft and reduce waste plus its supposed to be quicker

The reality is they still messed things up- I Mean each wall is labelled A, B, C etc in fluorescent paint and they have a layout showing them where each wall goes, and yet they STILL put the wrong wall in the wrong place, the window lintels were fixed with nails connecting with air, and they cut studs for pipes that weren't there.
Then they really distinguished themselves by using a 70x35 edge beam instead of the specified 90x35,longest edge up, which meant the beam was supporting the top floor perimeter frame and held up by nails and a 20mm gap to the supports under the beam...

As foir the time factor its quicker to install good $$ for the chippie, but you wait for the manufacturers to make them and that actually takes longer overall.