Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 2Dec 21, 2022 9:04 am Hey nicmc Welcome to the forum That can't be hanging rails for a 90mm deep robe? (humour) on the other hand If it's an alternate solution for a nogging or bracing? I suggest you get it certified by the builders engineer and building surveyor Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 3Dec 21, 2022 6:35 pm I have never seen this before, however I can see it being a very clever way of helping studs to stay straight. By simply boring a hole through all the studs in the same place and then putting a couple of dowels through it as they have done, would help to keep the all the studs in the same plane. It could save the carpenters time from having to straighten studs after the frames are up. Noggins can be installed once the frames are up. I'm not saying that is what it's for but just thinking about it, it would definitely make sense. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 4Dec 22, 2022 5:41 pm I'm also interested to know about these as this is what our framing looks like too. As yet the builder hasn't installed noggins for the ground floor frame despite claiming this stage is 'complete'. Will definitely be following this up with them. Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 5Dec 22, 2022 6:41 pm Hey 126broke Welcome to the forum. Trades always look for quicker ways to complete their sections of work, quite often at the expense of the following trades. Noggings, backblocking then gluing/screwing helps to support the Plasterboard. Without noggings how do they fix the sheets horizontally or is that left up to the the gyprocker to put them in? Did the builder give you certified construction/ engineering section details through the wall? As usual the less construction/engineering details, the less the chance of picking up any mistakes and business as usual. Tell the builder "You might need to scan the walls after they have finished" (humour) Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 6Dec 22, 2022 6:51 pm Thanks for your reply! We have requested the engineering drawings for the framing so hopefully that will shed some light on things. The builder (and PCA) have been pretty clear that the framing only needs to be certified prior to covering so I guess we will wait and see once the second storey and roof are 'completed'... Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 7Dec 22, 2022 8:45 pm StructuralBIMGuy Hey 126broke . Without noggings how do they fix the sheets horizontally or is that left up to the the gyprocker to put them in? Noggins have nothing to do with sheet installation. They are there to prevent twisting of studs. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 8Dec 22, 2022 9:49 pm Hey chippy You should try Chat AI Pity they don't have certified details as yet There's no need to look up thousands of google docs anymore LOL, Ask the assistant Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 10Dec 23, 2022 12:23 am StructuralBIMGuy Hey chippy You should try Chat AI Pity they don't have certified details as yet There's no need to look up thousands of google docs anymore LOL, Ask the assistant Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ The engineer is taking building advice from an AI bot. Hahahah I prefer to get my information and facts from the manufacturers. I'd suggest you go have a look at the CSR plasterboard installation guide. Obviously your AI can't mine the information from a PDF. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 11Dec 23, 2022 12:42 am LOL indeed. The guy who has never hung a sheet of plasterboard in his life spouts off then quotes an AI chatbot as his proof. He should stick to his civil engineering and go back to roads and mines. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 12Dec 23, 2022 2:26 am And alexp79 My comment was directed to StructuralBIMguy not yourself. At least your AI chat confirmed the purpose of noggins as a structural element and not something to screw horizontal sheets to. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 13Dec 23, 2022 8:56 am chippy And alexp79 My comment was directed to StructuralBIMguy not yourself. At least your AI chat confirmed the purpose of noggins as a structural element and not something to screw horizontal sheets to. Refer to AS1720 for the structural requirements for noggins If that's the new AS for timber frames ie noggings please post a reference link Manufacturers recommendations should be specified so you can check the relevant information and certification. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 14Dec 23, 2022 9:03 am chippy LOL indeed. The guy who has never hung a sheet of plasterboard in his life spouts off then quotes an AI chatbot as his proof. AI chat isn't proof mate, its a uncertified suggestion just like yours Data, proofs and certification require engineers, check with the regulators chippy He should stick to his civil engineering and go back to roads and mines. Actually its construction and civil engineering. hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 15Dec 23, 2022 9:06 am StructuralBIMGuy Actually its construction and civil engineering. hth ACTUALLY....it's being a doofus online pretending to be an engineer. HTH Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 16Dec 23, 2022 1:05 pm StructuralBIMGuy Once again you try to duck and weave instead of just saying "yeah I got it wrong" Let's outline exactly how this thread has gone so people can easily see your complete lack of logic and ability to follow an argument. Hopefully at the end you can admit that you made one of your typical comments that were incorrect and have then been busy trying to sound like you actually know what you are doing since. The OP asked about the interesting addition of the dowels in their frames. You replied that it may be an alternate construction and they would need to get the certified details from the builder. I agree with that 100% because it doesn't meet AS 1684 timber framing code as they are. I commented that I can actually see some clever benefits to this construction in keeping the wall frames flatter and truer, which would make the carpenters job easier because they wouldn't have to straighten as many frames. This ultimately gives a better end result to the home owner. Noggins could still be added in order to meet AS 1684 otherwise it would come back to your initial comment and need certification underAS1720 . Still no problems. Then you go on you rant about trades and say this StructuralBIMGuy Without noggings how do they fix the sheets horizontally or is that left up to the the gyprocker to put them in? That is just wrong. The noggins aren't used to fix plasterboard to. You only glue and screw to studs. I recommend that you read the CSR installation guide to confirm this. You then came back with a comment generated by an AI chatbot to try and prove me wrong. The chatbot is obviously referencing US construction which you can tell by the terminology. When I point out the irony of the engineer who constantly talks about the need of having proofs and data using a chatbot as his reference, instead of just addressing your mistake and the ludicrous doubling down you come back with a whole pile of waffle that isn't relevant to anything I have said. Once again your initial answer was fine because you commented on something you actually know. Your subsequent rant about things you don't know about was just wrong. Even if the above frames are deemed to comply through certification the plasterboard sheets will go up just fine because you don't need noggins to hang sheets. Now I'm sure you will come back with another pile of waffle in order to deflect from your obvious lack of actual construction experience, but at least any sane logical person will clearly be able to see that your comments are often just a load of rubbish in what I suspect is an attempt to feel superior to others. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 17Dec 23, 2022 1:19 pm And for NicMc and 126broke Please let us know how you get on with the certification of your frames. As I said I have never seen this method of construction before (we don't do loads of framing here in WA), but I can definitely see some real advantages to it with regards to keeping walls straight and true. As prefab frames any work done in the more controlled environment of a workshop has the possibility of adding accuracy and a better end result. Let everyone know how you get on. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Frame broomstick cross beams 19Dec 24, 2022 7:58 am Hey NicMc, 126broke It would also be a good idea to check the Timbers moisture content here Feel free to use the engineers assistant OT, It helps if you ask the right questions and as an engineer I am happy to sign off on this..get it Cheers Chris Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Thanks! I'm spoke to the builder I'm not sure if this is all true but basically went along the lines of they considered all options and if I was to compact and fill it… 2 7556 THanks , l got a licensed building inspector to look at the rust, he said its just surface rust and it would take many years to become a problem because the beams are so… 22 28772 |