Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Sep 21, 2022 6:37 pm Hi everyone. I'm currently developing tooling to produce plastic formwork in Victoria, and I'm looking for builders in Victoria who would be willing to utilise it once it's ready. I've included a picture to demonstrate the product below. I have the potential of funding to complete the first batch of formwork, if I can demonstrate that I have builders interested in trialing the product. The formwork is similar to ICF, but is designed to be reusable. Any trials of the formwork would only occur after I've shown that it's fit for purpose and meets AS 3610 etc. I'm open to any feedback, advice, or suggestions as to where I can find someone to work with on this project. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 2Sep 28, 2022 11:07 am Unfortunately, i don't even like your chances of finding/bribing a final year engineering student looking for a project to submit to graduate . Artists with 3D printers struggle with engineering, construction costs and reality, besides there have been thousands of reports, articles, etc about concrete engineering in housing...LOL, including mine where patents were overturned. Goodluck Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 3Sep 28, 2022 11:21 am I'm not an artist with a 3D printer. I build and operate CNC machines, and come from a machinist background, and have concreters working with me on this project. I'm also not seeking patents. In fact, as I understand it, the relevant intellectual property is dated, and patents expired. I am trying to document a method to allow recycled materials to be used, to replace current less sustainable formwork patents, in such a way that it can be rapidly adopted, using open source IP. I'm curious what product you're talking about in regards to your patents being overturned? Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 4Sep 28, 2022 11:53 am Austral precast Even with the current situation here, Housing is driven by low costs and not sustainability Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 5Sep 28, 2022 11:59 am Yes. Which is why it's crucial that this is not locked behind patents and profiteering. The tooling to produce the formwork costs less than $300aud, which is a ~95% reduction compared to the quotes you would get from a typical middleman with contacts in China. The material to produce it is usually free, though in some cases you can find companies that will pay you to dispose of it. Compared to the costs of formply and commercial, patented formwork systems, in this current environment? Well, we've got the potential to undercut everyone and help deal with material shortages. We just need to be able to demonstrate that there's builders who need formwork. Shouldn't be that hard. Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 6Sep 28, 2022 12:54 pm The reality is you won't undercut anyone? In lucrative markets forces adjust rates down when threatened concrete prices has a large range $100m2 <-> $500m2 to move Take a chance ..build it and they may come? Goodluck Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 7Sep 28, 2022 12:59 pm I'm not intending to undercut concreters / concrete suppliers. I'm talking about being able to produce materials concreters would use. If the formwork is cheaper, especially given the scarcity of timber, I'd assume there's a market. What the concreter puts in his forms is up to his supplier for that material. The issue I'm faced with is that I need to justify my funding, and in order to do that I need a builder who is willing to state that they will use the formwork after I've built a pilot run and shown how it can meet AS 3610 Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 8Sep 28, 2022 1:17 pm Timber, Steel, Aluminium, plastic, bamboo all formwork gets recycled from job to job You will need to get it tested at a uni testing facility if your funding is about to run out then that's a problem. Unless it's part of a students research project. OT, no-one will invest unless there is exclusivity and a healthy ROI Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 9Sep 28, 2022 1:23 pm With varying degrees of degradation in the materials. Formply is rapidly degraded by use on site, and is a major component of construction industry waste. The funding I have is to help address construction waste. Not to make a commercial profit off of the product. The funding is intended to enable testing, to help us meet the Australian Standard, but this will be fairly straightforward, as it's easy to simply over-engineer a pilot form ... heavily reinforce it, and then once it's demonstrated as viable work to determine more cost effective reinforcement strategies. Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 10Sep 29, 2022 9:43 am Hint you haven't had a reply from anyone interested and here is why You are posting on a low cost house building website and you haven't provided any data, proofs, cost, etc? Try doing a wall comparison ( exclude openings, penetrations, etc) say 2c masonry brick walls v 90mm concrete reinforced wall 20 brick per m2 x $4 brick =$80 m2 (M&L) Concrete $40m2 (M&L) + reinforcement $10m2 (M&L) +2 sides formwork Sheathing, Walings, Studs,ties,etc Placing and stripping = ($200/m2)= $250m2 If I was to do a basement wall it still would be cheaper to concrete cavity fill 2 brick walls and there is no wasted Formwork as you see it. hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 11Sep 29, 2022 12:48 pm Funny how you go from $50m2 on concrete to $250m2. Does formwork, sheathing, walings, etc. cost $200m2? I really doubt it. Also, high quality plastic formwork can last 100+ pours. I would say that main price differentiator will be the cost of rendering for concrete. Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 12Sep 29, 2022 1:08 pm Can I ask what you mean regarding rendering? A chief aim, informed by my conversations with concreters, with these forms is to have sharp edges, smooth outer surfaces and tight tolerances. I was told that other plastic formwork products often left seam marks, and I've wanted to avoid that. I think I see where StructuralBIMGuy is going even if I too am not sure about his numbers. Concrete has quite specific applications, and on site structural formwork is again only a subset of that. And this is especially relevant to his point about the type of forum we're on. I think there's scenarios where this formwork could be useful to people here. Like a retaining wall, or structural column of some sort. But I'm here as a tool maker, not a concreter, and so I'm just relaying what I've heard from professionals I've had talks with. Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 14Sep 29, 2022 3:56 pm Aha, yes, I wasn't sure if you were suggesting that concrete out of these forms would require rendering, or just talking about it in general. Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 15Sep 29, 2022 7:27 pm alexp79 Funny how you go from $50m2 on concrete to $250m2. Does formwork, sheathing, walings, etc. cost $200m2? I really doubt it. At Least I provide numbers.. lol, you guys provide nothing, nuda not even a detail, cross check, 3D Bim Model, etc? For comparison Suspended Slab formwork is $150m2 Note the formwork is on the underside + edges only That's deliver, erected. Strip/cleaned, send back to yard For a wall there is formwork on 2 sides 2m2 x $100 (side) =$200 m2 That's deliver, erected. strip/cleaned, send back to yard Unless you think it's striped and taken back for free? alexp79 Also, high quality plastic formwork can last 100+ pours. Lucky to get 15-20 re- uses from extruded PVC formwork. hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 16Sep 29, 2022 7:34 pm Okay, didn't know they charge $150/m2 for suspended formwork these days, esp. considering there are systems out there where it is not even requiring it eg Speedfloor or Bondek or slabs over precast joists. I wonder how much labour is really involved in erection/removal of suspended slab formwork? From what I know ABS formworks are more reliable than PVC ones. Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 17Sep 29, 2022 7:44 pm ABS is one of the materials I want to target for recycling, as it's often available in large quantities as a waste material. PVC definitely can degrade relatively rapidly. Crucially ... with the tooling I've designed you'd easily be able to reform the bricks, even on site. A secondary goal of mine for the project is to deliver compact, inexpensive tooling that can allow distributed manufacturing, to reduce the cost of logistics. I think I mentioned something like that above? Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 18Sep 29, 2022 7:49 pm StructuralBIMGuy alexp79 Funny how you go from $50m2 on concrete to $250m2. Does formwork, sheathing, walings, etc. cost $200m2? I really doubt it. At Least I provide numbers.. lol, you guys provide nothing, nuda not even a detail, cross check, 3D Bim Model, etc? For comparison Suspended Slab formwork is $150m2 Note the formwork is on the underside + edges only That's deliver, erected. Strip/cleaned, send back to yard For a wall there is formwork on 2 sides 2m2 x $100 (side) =$200 m2 That's deliver, erected. strip/cleaned, send back to yard Unless you think it's striped and taken back for free? alexp79 Also, high quality plastic formwork can last 100+ pours. Lucky to get 15-20 re- uses from extruded PVC formwork. hth Obviously I do have CAD for the project, and the tooling, as I'm already manufacturing the bricks with in house tooling, and I do take your point about talking about numbers ... costs especially since that's really the job of someone managing a building project. Not doing favours for some guy trying to reinvent formworking. That was something I had my mind set on getting to later on, after I've demonstrated that the product works. The way I see this ... if I can include documentation of the product from machining the tooling, through to erecting and stripping the formwork, including data about the amount of time required ... that's the point you start talking about costs. If I were to charge a builder for the formwork, it would be based on the costs they currently expect for their existing solution, and I would be on site with a couple of people from my project team to put it up, take it down and take photographs etc. Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 19Sep 29, 2022 7:50 pm What I'm getting at here is that I'm not here to be a service provider ... ie a formworker, or a concreter. I'm here to find a way to demonstrate to those people that I have a tool they can buy or produce. Re: New Plastic Formwork product - looking for Vic builder 20Jul 15, 2024 4:22 am I am in Sydney NSW. I came across your post and thought it has some merit. How did it go for you? I was wondering about the possibility of getting a pattern on the face etc. Perri You are correct, my math was wrong at 5am this morning with no coffee! I have now fixed the formula. 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