Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Feb 07, 2021 8:54 pm Needing some advice with a duplex build, how realistic is a budget of under 800k - 950k. What can I expect with that budget (happy with 3 bedrooms)? Interested to know which builders can do for that price in Sydney. Is it normal for builders to charge upfront for a quote? Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 2Feb 08, 2021 10:42 am KateBrooks Is it normal for builders to charge upfront for a quote? Hey katebrooks Welcome to the forum Unfortunately, that is becoming the new norm, services aren't free and the client always pays. Try to avoid paying for services based on poor documentation, engineering, non compliance, data, quants, etc, it will come back and bite you at a later date. Choose your Builder wisely. Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 3Feb 08, 2021 3:26 pm StructuralBIMGuy KateBrooks Is it normal for builders to charge upfront for a quote? Hey katebrooks Welcome to the forum Unfortunately, that is becoming the new norm, services aren't free and the client always pays. Try to avoid paying for services based on poor documentation, engineering, non compliance, data, quants, etc, it will come back and bite you at a later date. Choose your Builder wisely. Cheers Chris Thanks StructuralBIMGuy. How does one avoid paying for "services based on poor documentation" etc? I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by the amount of things to avoid and ways that builders can take advantage of an ignorant customer. Is it beneficial to engage a architect of my own plan before presenting to a builder for a quote? Or trust the builder to come up with a plan under my budget? Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 4Apr 14, 2021 7:11 pm All builders will ask for funds upfront to get you a preliminary quote (indicative). They'd need to reach out to a contractor to do a soil test and contour survey of your property, and this shouldn't cost you more than $1500. Ask for that soil and contour report as it's yours (you've paid for them). As you are in Cumberland Council, it's crucial that you get your Stormwater OSD costings sorted and as fixed pricing asap after the soil test, contour survey and your preliminary quote. Don't allow builders to leave your Stormwater OSD costs at provisional sums/allowance, and make sure you get that OSD cost fixed before they prepare and submit your application for DA approval, otherwise it's an open-book for extortion (they know you're well invested by this time, especially once the DA has been approved). You should be able to just pay them something like $4K to get the Stormwater OSD designs so they can price it appropriately, and make sure they give you a copy of this - they shouldn't have exclusive rights to this as you're paying for them. You could take this to another builder if you decide to go with someone else. From my recent experience, for Cumberland, it should cost around the ball-park of $70-$90K for Stormwater OSD, which also depends on your property size. I've tried to do mine the cheaper way, to have OSD above ground - however this was not permitted and had to it underground (was hoping to pay $50-$60K). But underground (under the driveway) is definitely neater and doesn't take away your yard. Lastly, you could just pick a volume design, and ask to rearrange what you want. I know someone that went the custom design route with a custom builder and they went about 15% above budget. And never trust the builder to come up with a plan with your budget. Best thing to do is to get as many line-items on your tender to be fixed prior to DA submission. This way, when you receive the final tender prior to DA submission, you can choose to proceed or backout (or ask the builder for discounts). The biggest cost aside from the base build will be Stormwater OSD, so again, that should be fixed before your app goes off to DA submission. Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 5Apr 14, 2021 7:33 pm Jiminy Mallet17! $70-90k for an OSD !! A standard sized house like our proposed one with a roofed area of around 246 sqm and ours would be around $25- 30k ( like yours - under the driveway ) if I used someone else. I'm doing it myself so it will be considerably less. Stewie Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 6Apr 14, 2021 8:15 pm Hey Stewie Yes it's much cheaper on a detached single home. It's really pricey for Duplex since you're doing it on two driveways I'm surprised that you need OSD for your detached single home. If you did OSD yourself, you'd save for sure. Builders put margin on everything. I've asked a contractor and they said they'd do it for 50k. But less pain and hassle doing it with the project builder... and I don't think the builder would allow external contractors in, due to site accountability and such. Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 7Apr 14, 2021 9:30 pm Yeah, I guess having to do two would dramatically increase the cost but I'd also imagine that for a two storey duplex, the OSD tank would also be significantly smaller than what we are required to install. Most floorplans I've seen for duplexes have had a roofed area of around 160 sqm as opposed to ours above. " I'm surprised that you need OSD for your detached single home." Taken from the Councils guidelines regarding stormwater "Generally OSD is required for all developments in Warringah where the total existing and proposed impervious areas exceed 40% of the total site area. " Stewie Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 8Apr 14, 2021 10:28 pm Ah Warringah. Makes sense. Cumberland for me. They require each duplex to have a 10000L retention... so 5000L tank in each side, and 5000L for concrete bunker under each driveway. After seeing that recent prolonged storm that flooded NSW... maybe not so overkill anymore... Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 10Apr 15, 2021 7:34 am Stewie D Jiminy Mallet17! $70-90k for an OSD !! A standard sized house like our proposed one with a roofed area of around 246 sqm and ours would be around $25- 30k ( like yours - under the driveway ) if I used someone else. I'm doing it myself so it will be considerably less. Stewie We can do a 16,000 litre concrete OSD under a driveway for a touch under 20k and that includes rock excavation, cranes, plumbing etc. If you have to bigger or smaller the cost increases or decreases marginally. Another idea if you have the yard space is to do a rain garden in the front yard, cost less that $5k OSD's don't need to be that expensive. If anyone wants details PM me and I'll send you the details Cheers Simeon Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 11Apr 16, 2021 7:29 am " We can do a 16,000 litre concrete OSD under a driveway for a touch under 20k and that includes rock excavation, cranes, plumbing etc. If you have to bigger or smaller the cost increases or decreases marginally. " My thoughts as well Simeon. I've allowed about $12k for ours but as above, I'll be doing it myself. Our hydraulics engineer has come up with a 5,700L OSD tank under our drive but we are also doing a 20,000L water tank as well which receives the roof water first then overflow to the OSD which is all part of his calculation. Stewie Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 12Apr 16, 2021 7:53 am Stewie D " We can do a 16,000 litre concrete OSD under a driveway for a touch under 20k and that includes rock excavation, cranes, plumbing etc. If you have to bigger or smaller the cost increases or decreases marginally. " My thoughts as well Simeon. I've allowed about $12k for ours but as above, I'll be doing it myself. Our hydraulics engineer has come up with a 5,700L OSD tank under our drive but we are also doing a 20,000L water tank as well which receives the roof water first then overflow to the OSD which is all part of his calculation. Stewie found a place that pre-makes them in concrete and you just crane them in. The actual cost of the tank is about $7k and you have to factor in excavation, plumbing etc but its a very simple process. Fits seamlessly under the driveway Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 13Apr 16, 2021 7:59 am Thanks for the info Simeon. I'm sure someone else will find that very handy but ours has to be longer and lower than most because we only have a limited fall to the street so it has to be custom built on site. Stewie Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 14Apr 16, 2021 8:11 am Stewie D Thanks for the info Simeon. I'm sure someone else will find that very handy but ours has to be longer and lower than most because we only have a limited fall to the street so it has to be custom built on site. Stewie Stewie, You're right. I think the point of this discussion began when someone was quoted $70-90k the point we were agreeing on was that there are cheaper options, like rain gardens etc. I think some of the project builders aren't very experienced in building in areas that need OSD as standard and probably overprice them. Around my area in Killara/Pymble rain gardens are becoming popular. I havent built one personally but they look very nice and my guess is they would cost under $5k. The advantage up here is people have bigger front yards. anyway, have a great day Simeon Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 15Apr 16, 2021 8:20 am I agree. I drew plans for a builder about seven years ago and he put in a rain garden. By the time he had landscaped in and around it, it looked like a big flat area of lawn. A far cheaper option although with his site with limited fall to the councils gutter he had no alternative. I'm unsure what it cost him. I've seen a few others over the last few years too but like your area we tend to have bigger blocks of land over our way. Stewie Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 16Apr 16, 2021 1:45 pm Stewie D I agree. I drew plans for a builder about seven years ago and he put in a rain garden. By the time he had landscaped in and around it, it looked like a big flat area of lawn. A far cheaper option although with his site with limited fall to the councils gutter he had no alternative. I'm unsure what it cost him. I've seen a few others over the last few years too but like your area we tend to have bigger blocks of land over our way. Stewie All this talk of rain gardens I thought i should post some photos so people can understand what I was talking about Rain Garden for OSD 2 Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Rain Garden for OSD 1saw this one in Killara framed with core 10. looks quite smartLike ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Ra Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 17Apr 17, 2021 10:51 pm Rain garden was considered and proposed, however was rejected. Same with above-ground OSD (despite many of these already being present around other streets nearby, but they were build 5+ years before). The only option Cumberland allowed for the Duplexes was in-concrete, under the driveways, which also went into the garage. There was a lot of back and forth between Metricon and Cumberland to get it right. I remember when approaching Kurmond Homes, and they flat out said no because they didn't want to deal with Cumberland and their OSD requirements at the time. Probably different now? Mind you, the $70-$90K was for both sides (giving a range because every land is different)... but yes, still pricey. Cumberland is pretty strict, not like the other councils. Yes, it would be cheaper if I could get someone else to do the hydraulics and stormwater detention design and implementation... but I'm with a Project Builder (Metricon), and they don't allow outsiders coming onto site while construction takes place. I've heard the Hills Shire council is strict too. Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 18Apr 18, 2021 6:51 am I dealt with North Sydney, Warringah + Manly ( now Northern beaches Council ) and Mosman councils over the years and they are all pretty strict when it comes to stormwater retention and dispersion. Don't get me started on some of their other policies and guidelines! I've heard that Kur-ing-gai is pretty tough as well Stewie Re: Duplex Build - Cumberland Council NSW 19Apr 18, 2021 1:32 pm mallet17 Rain garden was considered and proposed, however was rejected. Same with above-ground OSD (despite many of these already being present around other streets nearby, but they were build 5+ years before). The only option Cumberland allowed for the Duplexes was in-concrete, under the driveways, which also went into the garage. There was a lot of back and forth between Metricon and Cumberland to get it right. I remember when approaching Kurmond Homes, and they flat out said no because they didn't want to deal with Cumberland and their OSD requirements at the time. Probably different now? Mind you, the $70-$90K was for both sides (giving a range because every land is different)... but yes, still pricey. Cumberland is pretty strict, not like the other councils. Yes, it would be cheaper if I could get someone else to do the hydraulics and stormwater detention design and implementation... but I'm with a Project Builder (Metricon), and they don't allow outsiders coming onto site while construction takes place. I've heard the Hills Shire council is strict too. just saying that I used to be the NSW GM of Metricon in charge of building the duplexes, probably built around 300 or so, and those in charge now are morons. Just saying. I dont care what anyone says but you shouldnt be charged that much for OSD tanks, They clearly have no idea as to how to construct them cost effectively. Anyway, that's my Sunday rant These are the pre-made concrete tanks that can go under the driveway. Installed around ( depending how much rock excavation( around $15-20k Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au This was on google. Development controls 2.3.1 Front setback D1 New buildings within residential areas shall adhere to a front building line, which is 5.5-6m to the… 1 3665 If so what were the "special circumstances" under which it was granted? "Note: If the development consent is for 'dual occupancy' an owner-builder permit can only be… 0 14070 Even if it's not being sub-divided and you want to keep it as Torrens title, you will still need to talk to a town planner or Council themselves, to see if they will allow… 1 11035 |