Browse Forums General Discussion 1 Nov 05, 2020 9:31 pm Hello everyone, We are building 2 story house with hebel, base floor will be rendered and second floor has cladding. We heard cladding can make the house very warm during summer. Is it true? Has anyone experienced this issue with cladding? Thanks Re: Cladding or Render? 2Nov 05, 2020 9:50 pm This depends on the material used for cladding. If its vinyl with a foam backing, you'll find it behaves like insulation and keeps the house cool in summer and warm in winter. But there's more to thermal control than just your cladding. Think of double roof insulation, the type of bricks used, etc. What material is your cladding made of? Re: Cladding or Render? 3Nov 05, 2020 10:56 pm Our external walls are hebel, and the cladding is fibre cement. This is the cladding supplier page, https://www.jameshardie.com.au/productrange/categories/cladding/scyon-linea-weatherboard. Re: Cladding or Render? 4Nov 06, 2020 12:30 am ~0.49 higher R value with the Hebel based wall according to this page http://hebel.com.au/r-values-mean-home- ... decisions/ Upgrading your wall insulation where the Scyon fibre cement cladding is used is an option. Re: Cladding or Render? 5Nov 09, 2020 10:41 pm theshack ~0.49 higher R value with the Hebel based wall according to this page http://hebel.com.au/r-values-mean-home- ... decisions/ Upgrading your wall insulation where the Scyon fibre cement cladding is used is an option. We prefer to use cladding but worried about noise insulation. I heard R value for cladding is very low compared to hebel. Is there anyway we can improve it? Or should we go with hebel instead? Re: Cladding or Render? 6Nov 09, 2020 11:48 pm Hebel panels are also relatively thin (either 50 mm or 75 mm), I doubt you are going to getting significant noise insulation improvements in comparison to even standard brick. Most of the cladding will be worse though. Hebel Panels are adding a bit of R value, although Hebel joints as well as framing will be still acting as a thermal bridge, so your real R value will still be much lower than calculated. For framed house, I would still go with 75 mm Hebel panels + vapour permeable wrap + 2.5 R batts in timber frame throughout for the best R value and noise insulation. I don't think there is any better option available on Australian market as of now. Re: Cladding or Render? 7Nov 10, 2020 8:08 am alexp79 Hebel panels are also relatively thin (either 50 mm or 75 mm), I doubt you are going to getting significant noise insulation improvements in comparison to even standard brick. Most of the cladding will be worse though. Hebel Panels are adding a bit of R value, although Hebel joints as well as framing will be still acting as a thermal bridge, so your real R value will still be much lower than calculated. For framed house, I would still go with 75 mm Hebel panels + vapour permeable wrap + 2.5 R batts in timber frame throughout for the best R value and noise insulation. I don't think there is any better option available on Australian market as of now. great well researched post as always Alex i love reading your contributions cheers simeon Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Cladding or Render? 8Nov 10, 2020 2:55 pm alexp79 Hebel panels are also relatively thin (either 50 mm or 75 mm), I doubt you are going to getting significant noise insulation improvements in comparison to even standard brick. Most of the cladding will be worse though. Hebel Panels are adding a bit of R value, although Hebel joints as well as framing will be still acting as a thermal bridge, so your real R value will still be much lower than calculated. For framed house, I would still go with 75 mm Hebel panels + vapour permeable wrap + 2.5 R batts in timber frame throughout for the best R value and noise insulation. I don't think there is any better option available on Australian market as of now. Hi Alex, Thanks for your reply. If we go with weatherboard cladding, and install R 2.5 insulation, is there going to be big difference compared to hebel? We heard the big issue with weatherboards are sound insulation, and sale consultant suggested we use R2.5 bandford sound installation to the bedrooms, and R2.5 thermal insulation for the rest of the walls. Sound insulation is much more expensive than thermal insulation, and we still are not sure if it would be effective. The reason we prefer weatherboard on the first floor is the Hampton look plus low maintenance. Re: Cladding or Render? 9Nov 10, 2020 4:28 pm Sound insulation will be best from the bricks or Hebel blocks, i.e. from "solid" and relatively thick material. Sound insulation with the batts will help a bit, however, it won't be really defining. You would need to consider metal studs, double/tripple gyprock layers, green glue, furring channels etc. to maximise sound insulation for the internal walls. E.g. Knauf guide provides a number of different systems to give an idea of what sound insulation can be achieved. External walls are different story as over there windows will still be the main contributors to the sound, so quality double glazing would be a must. Re: Cladding or Render? 10Nov 10, 2020 7:17 pm alexp79 Sound insulation will be best from the bricks or Hebel blocks, i.e. from "solid" and relatively thick material. Sound insulation with the batts will help a bit, however, it won't be really defining. You would need to consider metal studs, double/tripple gyprock layers, green glue, furring channels etc. to maximise sound insulation for the internal walls. E.g. Knauf guide provides a number of different systems to give an idea of what sound insulation can be achieved. External walls are different story as over there windows will still be the main contributors to the sound, so quality double glazing would be a must. Do you mean sound installation such as Bradford is not common for external walls? Re: Cladding or Render? 11Nov 11, 2020 12:43 am Ral21 alexp79 Sound insulation will be best from the bricks or Hebel blocks, i.e. from "solid" and relatively thick material. Sound insulation with the batts will help a bit, however, it won't be really defining. You would need to consider metal studs, double/tripple gyprock layers, green glue, furring channels etc. to maximise sound insulation for the internal walls. E.g. Knauf guide provides a number of different systems to give an idea of what sound insulation can be achieved. External walls are different story as over there windows will still be the main contributors to the sound, so quality double glazing would be a must. Do you mean sound installation such as Bradford is not common for external walls? They are generally used as thermal insulation batts, which still provide limited sound insulation too. They are not adding a lot, though. Generally system does, which is comprised of multiple components. First you need to define which level of sound insulation you seem to be satisfiable (eg Rw+Ctr) and then calculate and design system to address your requirements. Re: Cladding or Render? 12Nov 11, 2020 2:44 am alexp79 For framed house, I would still go with 75 mm Hebel panels + vapour permeable wrap + 2.5 R batts in timber frame throughout for the best R value and noise insulation. I don't think there is any better option available on Australian market as of now. You wouldn't go for 2.7R batts ? What's your criteria for best option ? Re: Cladding or Render? 13Nov 11, 2020 12:20 pm theshack alexp79 For framed house, I would still go with 75 mm Hebel panels + vapour permeable wrap + 2.5 R batts in timber frame throughout for the best R value and noise insulation. I don't think there is any better option available on Australian market as of now. You wouldn't go for 2.7R batts ? What's your criteria for best option ? Yes, you can go with 2.7 too, although the added savings are not very significant so should be rather analysed from cost vs value perspective. My criteria for walls are quite straightforward: 1) Thermal insulation with maximum reduction of thermal bridging (this is where Hebel and wrap will work together and provide first level of insulation without much of bridging. If everything installed well, you should be able to achieve around R2.3-2.5 of real thermal resistance with such system. Remember that even R2.5 batts won't work to 2.5 due to moisture coming out of your house, thermal bridging from the framing as well as any installation defects. At best you will be able to only get R2.0 out of your complete wall system, but more likely R1.5-1.7); 2) Walls breathability, ability to regulate humidity and remove excessive moisture naturally (this is where EPS is not that efficient but still more efficient than XPS). Some of the cladding can prevent/reduce breathability too, so need to be careful with selection. 3) Sound insulation/noise cancellation properties, ideally Rw+Ctr should be 60+ dbm for external walls (I don't think it is achievable with just standard Hebel Panels + batts, but should be close to those numbers); 4) Decent protection from accidental damage e.g. hurricane winds (unfortunately, neither rendered Hebel Panels nor bricks will be able to completely protect from sharp debris travelling at high speeds and penetrating walls). The test is quite simple, you hit the wall with the sledgehammer and see whether your were able to penetrate inside. 5) Decent protection from termites, insects and rodents; Standard uninsulated double brick has an R value of around 0.7. An insulated standard 90mm stud timber frame can have an R value of around 2.7. Even if you insulate a… 17 12035 The spacing of the studs looks pretty large especially for a load bearing wall. 3 11109 Re my second point – yes exactly. And often it may take additional time if the manufacturer recommends no more than X meters… 3 5642 |