Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 21Mar 17, 2012 2:15 pm finally, the class action we mentioned on the website long ago is finally seeing some light. there is NO REASON whatsoever the owner has to build a concrete path around the house after handover, this is just pure unreasonable! Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 22Mar 17, 2012 2:34 pm I think you are misinterpreting the class action itself - it is addressing the possibly insufficient engineering/construction of footings/slabs for widespread issues in particular regions (mostly out in the outer western suburbs but also specific cases for individual builds in other areas) where negligence in the surveying/engineering/construction process may be evident, not a broad general philosophy of the builder making sure they cater for every eventual possibility when they go through the engineering process for the slab. As has been said previously the builder certainly could engineer the slab and footings to withstand anything this side of an earthquake if they were asked to, but then the customer would be paying through the nose in the process. You DO still need to build a concrete apron around your house to redirect water away from the footings as a house owner regardless of how well they have been engineered if you want to minimise the risk of your slab heaving. Of course the builder can do this for you, but then you'd be paying more. Oh and just because they are looking to possibly proceed with a class action it doesn't necessarily mean that it will result in a win for the complainants - judges and the law in general can be a fickle mistress. Some people apparently have nothing better to do than comment on other people's sigs. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 23Mar 17, 2012 4:17 pm Do not quite agree, a house built on reactive soil should withstand the issue of slab heave accordingly by knowing at first from the engineering report. if the builder cannot provide such engineering skill and structure they shouldn't be selling the house at the first place. I also do not think building a parameter of concrete around the house is the ultimate solution, slab heave issue should be fixed from the design and engineering of the slab itself, if the cost increase so be it, at least buyer is getting a house that won't crack easily. spending 300k to build a house that won't crack is better than spending 200k to build a hut. regardless of how this issue get resolve in the future, ultimate victim is still the buyer. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 24Mar 17, 2012 4:55 pm rojak1 ... spending 300k to build a house that won't crack is better than spending 200k to build a hut. ... That is the major problem right there - to make house building more affordable the structure is generally not going to be engineered to maximum robustness. However if you went to most people and told them that "over-engineering" their slab and footings would add $30-$50k (or more) to their site costs they would immediately start screaming about the builder ripping them off by asking them pay a lot more for something they might not need. Even if the footings/slab were engineered to be more resistant to slab heave they still won't be bullet proof and you're still likely to have problems over time if you are allowing the moisture levels to fluctuate in/around the footings of the house. I'm certainly not looking to have $$$ ripped out the resale value of our house due to structural damage, so if the recommendation is to have a concrete apron and a suitable ag-drain setup around the house to help preserve its structural integrity then by goodness I am going to do it. Whether you choose to do so or not (for aesthetic reasons because you don't appear to have a problem with the potential cost from what you have written above?) is up to you - it's not necessarily an attitude I would endorse others following though. Some people apparently have nothing better to do than comment on other people's sigs. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 25Mar 17, 2012 5:24 pm To make a house more affordable does not mean loosen the structure. how affordable or cheap the house is today still take a big chunk of one's life saving, and buyer expect something that stand for a longer period of time with their hard earned cash. cost is a problem to many of us, but most buyer will have no choice but to build the concrete path because the slab that builder designed, engineered and created does not hold up itself. it is not so much about appearance. they know what builder might say in the future when cracking really take place. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 26Mar 17, 2012 5:48 pm Are you now you're saying that the onus is on the builder to take the hit in terms of cost that comes from engineering slabs and footings to a higher spec? After all if it costs more to do the engineering for higher spec footings and slab then someone has to pay for it. As for your aversion to having a concrete apron around the house, well you probably need to look at your build contract again as it is not just a recommendation coming from the builder to cover their own backsides - it is actually advice published by the CSIRO (a government agency). Some people apparently have nothing better to do than comment on other people's sigs. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 27Mar 17, 2012 5:59 pm rojak1 To make a house more affordable does not mean loosen the structure. how affordable or cheap the house is today still take a big chunk of one's life saving, and buyer expect something that stand for a longer period of time with their hard earned cash. cost is a problem to many of us, but most buyer will have no choice but to build the concrete path because the slab that builder designed, engineered and created does not hold up itself. it is not so much about appearance. they know what builder might say in the future when cracking really take place. Use to be building to a strict budget meant choosing from a very limited range of bricks and bathroom tiles and compromising on carpets and window furnishings until you could afford to upgrade. Too right Rojak1, it should NOT mean compromising on how structurally sound the building is! Perhaps a concrete path is a useful added precaution but when did it start being recommended? We never heard of it when building this house or the previous one and neither did any of our friends. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 28Mar 17, 2012 6:05 pm rojak1 To make a house more affordable does not mean loosen the structure. how affordable or cheap the house is today still take a big chunk of one's life saving, and buyer expect something that stand for a longer period of time with their hard earned cash. cost is a problem to many of us, but most buyer will have no choice but to build the concrete path because the slab that builder designed, engineered and created does not hold up itself. it is not so much about appearance. they know what builder might say in the future when cracking really take place. I think something that needs to be taken into account is where not talking about every house built having a problem. This is a minority of houses. So unlike the anology its like selling a car with out brakes which would lead to disaster in every case, many many houses without paths around the perimeter do not have a problem. The only outcome here as stated by cmhamilton is the price of houses built on H and P sites will go through the roof. As they say, be carefull of what you wish for. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 29Mar 17, 2012 6:29 pm cmhamilton Are you now you're saying that the onus is on the builder to take the hit in terms of cost that comes from engineering slabs and footings to a higher spec? After all if it costs more to do the engineering for higher spec footings and slab then someone has to pay for it. There should be a minimum standard that is acceptable because it is reliable and isn't prone to problems down the track. Builders should build that way and homebuyers should accept that it's something important they pay for. I think both sides need to take some responsibility, but the thing is many homebuyers rely on the builder's expertise and assume that between the builder and the building code they will get something that won't cause them worry and expense after they move in. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 30Mar 17, 2012 6:48 pm JazzyJess Use to be building to a strict budget meant choosing from a very limited range of bricks and bathroom tiles and compromising on carpets and window furnishings until you could afford to upgrade. Too right Rojak1, it should NOT mean compromising on how structurally sound the building is! Perhaps a concrete path is a useful added precaution but when did it start being recommended? We never heard of it when building this house or the previous one and neither did any of our friends. Well I am looking at a document titled "Foundation Maintainence and Footing Performance - A Homeowner's Guide" (published by the CSIRO) which has been included in our new home contract booklet right at this very moment. Our CSC talked us through all parts of the contract as we were signing off on it, including the recommendations for post-handover work to ensure the stability of the footings. We can also expect to be walked through specific recommendations for our particular site during the handover process from what we have been told. I don't know why it ewasn't done with your build or any of your friend's builds - perhaps this wasn't deemed as being necessary in the area you and your friends built in, but I can assure you our CSC put in the effort to explain it all to us in detail. Engineering standards for house construction are evolving (as evidence by the recent 2011 changes to AS-2870) and probably still need to evolve as urban expansion in Melbourne moves out into regions sitting on more highly reactive clayey soils (to the North and West) or alluvial flood plain soils (to the South East) - this however will inevitably result in increased cost for home builders. If you or your neighbours have never had to worry about slab heave or had the need to install a concrete apron then good for you/them (and I mean that sincerely) - however it's almost becoming a fact of life nowadays with the type of soils houses in new estates are now being built on that preventative measures need to be taken for a lot of builds. Like I said above if higher spec'd footings and slab cost more then who do you expect to wear the cost? The builder? I suspect that the concept of the customer having champagne tastes on a beer budget doesn't really translate to building where the differences for things such as higher-spec'd footings/slab can easily tally in the tens of thousands of dollars. I just want to clarify that in no way am I defending or making excuses for any builders that have not been doing the right thing by their customers, including possibly some that have built in those areas we have recently seen discussed in the news/current affairs programs on a regular basis - if a surveyor/builder has not been doing their due diligence to ensure the structural integrity of the house to the best of their ability then of course they deserve to be (figuratively) strung up. Some people apparently have nothing better to do than comment on other people's sigs. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 31Mar 17, 2012 7:00 pm mgilla rojak1 To make a house more affordable does not mean loosen the structure. how affordable or cheap the house is today still take a big chunk of one's life saving, and buyer expect something that stand for a longer period of time with their hard earned cash. cost is a problem to many of us, but most buyer will have no choice but to build the concrete path because the slab that builder designed, engineered and created does not hold up itself. it is not so much about appearance. they know what builder might say in the future when cracking really take place. I think something that needs to be taken into account is where not talking about every house built having a problem. This is a minority of houses. So unlike the anology its like selling a car with out brakes which would lead to disaster in every case, many many houses without paths around the perimeter do not have a problem. The only outcome here as stated by cmhamilton is the price of houses built on H and P sites will go through the roof. As they say, be carefull of what you wish for. We are on a H-class site (the double whammy of slope and reactive clay soil) and our site costs are roughly $25k extra on top of whatever our builder allocates for standard M-class footings/slab. We will definitely be putting in at least a 600mm (if not 900mm or more) concrete apron (along with retaining walls in some sections where the different between the house level and natural ground level is significant) all around the perimeter of our house due to the fact that A) we had a cut-and-fill configuration for our footings and B) our block slopes down from street level. Would we like to have that extra cash back in our pocket to spend on other things? Hell yes - but given the size of our investment it's an added cost that we're willing to wear to ensure the structural integrity of our house as much as possible. What other people think they should have to do or decide they are going to do is up to them, but we think our $250k-$300k investment in our house is worth spending a bit more on afterwards to make sure it will have a better chance of standing up to the test of time. Some people apparently have nothing better to do than comment on other people's sigs. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 32Mar 17, 2012 8:10 pm cmhamilton JazzyJess Engineering standards for house construction are evolving Thanks for the additional details. We never got any CSIRO publications with our contracts. The only time the CSIRO came up was when we did our own research about termite proofing. The builder wasn't going to do it because it wasn't compulsory in that location at that time. We said we wanted it and we would pay for it. I know another builder was already including it as standard in his houses. Now all builders have to do it. So you're totally right that standards are always evolving. It's worrying though when leaking type problems of one sort or another appear to be on the increase. I suppose you could say it appears that way cos ACA is doing more stories about builders but why do so many of us watch those stories with great interest? Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 33Mar 17, 2012 9:58 pm The slab heave is a major problem now, I have met people whose homes have been ruined and it's all traced back to builder's negligence. Your curiosity will be answered if you log on www.buildingexpert.net.au Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 34Mar 17, 2012 10:32 pm I have inspected hundreds of homes on reactive clay foundations either at stage inspections or after completion (and pre purchase reports) and most do not have foundation problems. That means that it is relatively easy (for a competent builder) to construct a home that will perform adequately. But I have seen many that failed and some before handover. Of the many homes with foundation problems it is always builders that fail to follow design documentation and the required drainage during construction. Surface drainage is not the only problem because water can enter under slab via service trenches, broken drains are routinely found, builders do not install downpipes as soon as roof is covered and water drains against slab edges for months and flexible pipe fittings are not installed as required by the standard. Site drainage during construction should be planned and competently managed, regrettably often it does not happen. I am not against the builders ( I am a registered builder myself) but I am against incompetence and make no apology for that. Consider just my recent case on my blog where P class site with pier foundation was flooded by builder The owner who is paying(willingly) a premium price has flipped. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 35Mar 22, 2012 5:33 pm "You DO still need to build a concrete apron around your house to redirect water away from the footings as a house owner regardless of how well they have been engineered if you want to minimise the risk of your slab heaving. " We have water leaks into our masonry brick on concrete slab house, and there IS a concrete apron all around . .trouble is the apron is sloping back towards the house,not away from it! so that water pools against the walls in heavy rain . .and we get plenty of that (live in North Queensland). we seem to have leaks in one corner of all 3 bedrooms, although it appears that only one is still happening -and that is really wet atm -we have discovered this after moving furniture and pulling up carpet to refurbish. i don't think it would be aircon related because only one of the rooms has the aircon in the affected corner. We didnt build the house - bought it when it was 4 yrs old. the builder was a large local project builder, who has since gone out of business, so no joy there either! What type of tradie do we approach for fixing this problem?? As we need to attend to it so recarpeting and painting can go ahead. Please help! we are waiting on insurance claim assessment atm... Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 36Mar 22, 2012 5:57 pm I suspect it would all have to be ripped up and done again - so it would either just be a concreter to re-do the path/apron so that it slopes away from the house in the manner that it should have done in the first place, perhaps a landscaper as well if the ag drainage setup around your house is also insufficient (although a concreter should be able to do basic drainage works as well). Some people apparently have nothing better to do than comment on other people's sigs. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 37Mar 23, 2012 6:42 am qldgirl555 "You DO still need to build a concrete apron around your house to redirect water away from the footings as a house owner regardless of how well they have been engineered if you want to minimise the risk of your slab heaving. " We have water leaks into our masonry brick on concrete slab house, and there IS a concrete apron all around . .trouble is the apron is sloping back towards the house,not away from it! so that water pools against the walls in heavy rain . .and we get plenty of that (live in North Queensland). we seem to have leaks in one corner of all 3 bedrooms, although it appears that only one is still happening -and that is really wet atm -we have discovered this after moving furniture and pulling up carpet to refurbish. i don't think it would be aircon related because only one of the rooms has the aircon in the affected corner. We didnt build the house - bought it when it was 4 yrs old. the builder was a large local project builder, who has since gone out of business, so no joy there either! What type of tradie do we approach for fixing this problem?? As we need to attend to it so recarpeting and painting can go ahead. Please help! we are waiting on insurance claim assessment atm... The water leaks in the bedrooms, although you say one seems to have stopped do you know where the water is coming from? Finding this out would be your first priority. If the water pooling is higher than the weep holes this would probably be the cause. Cutting a small section of plaster out on the inside may answer some questions with very little damage done. As far as what tradie? Try ringing a few handymany / maintenance guys who have skills across a broad range. They can cut the hole patch and paint it, and if need be remove bricks it its a plumbing issue. If the path is the problem then yes chop it up and try to have it lowered with fall. If not i'd simply buy a squeegie, after its finished raining go out push the water away and save your money. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 38Mar 25, 2012 7:53 am luke11 Problem has now been fixed!! The water leak was coming from the HWS as there was a broken pipe. The water under our bath was a second issue, they believed the water build up under the bath as before we moved in there was a sewage problem. So they drain out the water from under the bath (using a paper cup) and said the remaining water will dry in time. Hi Luke, good to know that the problem has been fixed. The Builder should fix the consequential damage too. I would also contact Home Insurance company so that hey can also put pressure on the Builder. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 39Mar 25, 2012 8:21 am building-expert The slab heave is a major problem now, I have met people whose homes have been ruined and it's all traced back to builder's negligence. Your curiosity will be answered if you log on http://www.buildingexpert.net.au Hello Building Expert, I read your comments and some inspection experiences on your blog. What is the fix to my current problem of water seeping through the slab. The house is still under construction and the builder says that once the downpipes are connected and aggi pipes done the problem should go away. These jobs will be done in the next two weeks. He says that if it is not fixed after these jobs he would apply some chemical coating to prevent the water to come in. I will do the concrete apron and paving after the house is completed. Is there any thing else that could be done now. Re: Water seeping through slab in a new house 40Mar 25, 2012 8:53 am winner, One thing's for sure. Get the builder to fix the ag pipes etc and then wait for the slab to be dry. Only once you get evidence that the slab will remain dry should you consider the problem fixed. And then you can proceed with covering the slab. of course, you will need some rain to confirm that the slab will remain dry. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Thanks for your advice. So far i have not noticed any issues with doors and windows. Builder advised they will organise drainers to inspect 2 weeks ago but no further… 7 27030 13 7240 if it's the look that you're not happy with, the easiest option would probably be to spray paint it all into the same color as the walls so it blends in. there might not… 3 4624 |