Do l really need Starserve?

Hi tech-heads out there l need your help please

My BIL will be doing all our electrical work in our home and when we sat down the other night to finalise the electrical plan, the topic of Starserve arose.

He seems to think that we should get it mainly due to the number of TV points we are after. He ran through what Starserve does and whilst l found it all technical for me, l got the gist but l still don't think it's worth it...l dunno. Of course him being a sparky, he would light up our house like Disneyland at night and have everything automated (CBUS anyone?) if he could...but it did not appeal to me and although we are getting things done considerably cheaper we still have a budget we need to stick to.

So l thought l would convey to people here what type of stuff we are planning to have in the house and see what others have to say.

We have 9 TV points (1 in lounge, 2 in family & rumpus, 1 in alfresco, and 1 in main and kids bedrooms). We do not have Pay TV nor will ever get it in the future. TV's (2 x plasmas, 1 LCD to come and 3 normal tvs) are/will be used only for FTA, watching dvd's & playing games consoles.

Internet is by ADSL....We have 2 computers, one in each study. I would also like to have data/pc points (sorry not up with the correct terminology) so in the future when the kids are older they can have their own laptops and internet access from their bedrooms.

We have a cordless phone with two extra handsets. This is more than sufficient.

Our BIL also suggested we put speakers in the alfresco so we can play music without having to lug the stereo out there...now l do like this idea very much. We don't have an alarm system nor plan too, but will be putting in an intercom system (not that these relates to starserve??)

So as you can see, our home is fairly simple technology wise and l'd like to keep it that way. The only thing that interests me in is in regard to the internet access, at the moment we have those little filter doobies attached to the phone lines...l'd like to be able to get rid of those so l can at least wall mount my main phone.

Am l correct in thinking that l don't really need starserve and better off spending the money elsewhere on the home?

Thanks in advance for your advice and opinions

you don't need starserve for that... maybe just an amp.

We have having 7 tv points but they are multi-purpose, can be used as digital tv or foxtel. ie. If I plug a foxtel box into the outlet it will run foxtel, if I plug a digital set top box into it, it will run fta.

Thorney,

I suggest you read through the following two recent threads on Starserve:

http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=13929
http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=12907

My first piece of advice is definitely consider your budget, once you start down the route of home automation costs can quickly accumulate and get out of control as you seek to do add more capability.

Believe it or not, there is nothing all that smart about Starserve, sure it is nicely integrated and enclosed however the most of the same capabilities can be achieved with standard (and cheaper) splitters, modulators and Ethernet hubs on the market so if you have a clever and resourceful sparky he could put a solutions together for cheaper.

However, one thing that you absolutely should consider is wiring all your comms (TV, Internet, Telephone, Surveillance, Alarm, etc) to a central location. If you ever decide you do want some elements of automation in your home later on it may be difficult (or impossible) to retrofit and very expensive.

Interesting comments...

My comments are not directly related to Starserve but equally to all of the equivalent products, I've had experience with many different brands, my reasons for using Starserve in my place was purely financial.

This is your new home we're talking about, if you want some cupboard with cables and splitters, dist amps, patch panels all ****** over the floor then so be it, if you're looking to install a 19" rack then great, on the other hand if you're looking to have everything in a nice flush enclosure that doesn’t detract the quality of your home, then price up a large flush cabinet with gear tray and power rail that'll accommodate all your requirements. I think then you'll find these products are not that over the top. Remember you don't need to purchase any or all of the devices that can go into these enclosures just get the ones you need.

With regards to using passive splitters, I know some aren’t too interested in the quality of their TV reception; however when you consider the insertion loss using passive splitters, long runs of coax, and poor signal area, then things become somewhat problematic even for digital.

l have already read the other threads....which still left me unsure....and to be honest l couldn't understand half the stuff people were talking about

Ok, so from the replies, l gather that Starserve is not absolutely necessary, but l do need to at least wire all my stuff to a central location yeah?

I really don't want tv quality/reception to be compromised and one is saying use splitters (whatever they are ) and the other says that splitters won't do the job properly, and WBA says just to use an amp....l'm confused

I think l may go and vist my BIL again this weekend and get him to explain all this stuff to me again. Thanks guys for taking the time to comment

most installs i've seen are done into places that arn't usually seen by visitors in new houses..ie like into the Garage right near the NTD.

as for network points in bedrooms at least 2 data sockets in each room. as VOIP comes the standard of making calls, so then you can have a "PC" a VOIP handset installed at the same time and as POE is the best way to power them you have killed two birds with one cable.....


a small 4RU or 6RU rack with a lockable door at least 1 patch panel, 24port POE switch (they only come in 24 or 48way), 1 shelf to put the modem/ router or a Billion BiPAC 7404VNPX VOIP/802.11n/Gigabit/ 3G/ADSL2+ Firewall Router with PSTN fixed line support

http://au.billion.com/product/voip/bipac7404vnpx.php

this unit has removable antennas which means you could get soem cable ran into the roof space and have "better" antennas installed to increased coverage

and at most 3 data sockets along with TV sockets in areas you "might" put a TV.
esp with all the moderm generation of consles wanting to be online some how may as well run a cable.

TV distro amps are the best way to ensure good signal to multy TV's....

i really can't wait to build my own place and will gladly tell the "builder" to butt out of the networking/ TV side of the build

1. they charge too much hence when people want to retro fits they arn't keen on paying what their friends did on a new build...


2. Data/ TV cabling should be left to the experts

^^ Builders just hire sub contracting sparkies to do the cabling. As long as they draw the cabling map properly the job will be done by experts.

And you dont need a PoE switch, total waste of money for most home setups. Just use power bricks on your phones and pocket the hundreds-thousands extra you would pay for a PoE switch just to save a couple of power packs.

As for the patch panel about 6u sounds right, one for a patch panel (24 points, if you want over that then 2u for 28 points).
1u for the modem/router
1u for the switch
1u for ATA possibly (would fit with the router though, or get a router with ATA ports)

So thats 4-5, so 6 is about right for future growth.

We have decided on base plan ATM, so looking into the best place to put that gear. As there are only two of us ATM a bedroom (4br) seems like a good place, but then it probably wont always be a bedroom.
The theatre room is another, but really I want to avoid that sort of noisy gear in there.

As its 4 bed, we dont plan on 3 kids, it can be patched to the wardrobe, etc. I think it will end up in the 4th bedroom, just so its at a good but out of the way area. Probably a larger rack for me though as Ill end up putting 1-2 servers in there, two routers probably, etc. But Im a total geek, my PC is the size of a small horse, so Im the exception and far from the rule there.`

Hellman,
I think Pugs meant the builders sparkies aren't data cablers. Sparkies generally know about the little blue cables and keep them away from power but they don't really know what they are doing fully unless they do it all the time. As most builders sparkies concentrate on domestic rough ins and fit outs, they don't do much on the proper data side.

I'm on the same page as Kiwi.
I see starserve as a good way to "network" a house without going overboard yet as room to expand. It may not be right up there with the HDTV stuff, but as I have said before, do you need HDTV to every room?
I wouldn't be putting a cabinet in a house but thats my opinion. They need to be mounted very well (not just wall anchored to gyprock) and are the size of a microwave! Fair enough if you have a lot of gear but, fair crack of the whip here folks, a 24 port switch!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! who needs 24 ports??!?!?!?! who has 24 PC's or network devices?


So thorney.

You are at a point where you could use a Starserve system to make it all look pretty and combined or go for separate tv/network and save some cash (maybe).
You are smart in the phone system. Cordless with extra handsets.
A central filter will take away all those ADSL filters hanging around. it can be installed at the incoming point or at a starserve cabinet.
With technology advancing towards everything being IP based (over the net), one cat5 or cat6 to each room would suffice. Wireless is getting better so even if you don't use the cat5, you have a draw wire to pull in new cables later.
I have two cat5's and a tv point in all the rooms and don't use it at all!

The handiest thing about starserve I have used is the CCTV on all my TV's.

I would recommend it but its a personal thing. Has anyone got it and thought later, wish they didn't or didn't do it initially and regretted it later?
What you should do is ask non-tech heads what they think.

I have installed starserve in one friends house who wonders why they did it. They don't use all the features and because it is an non-active system, they forget its there and think its a waste of money.

This is exactly what I'm concerend about. I currently use wireless with my laptop and desktop. I only have a wired connection running on the floor from where the Optus modem/router to my Xbox360. I'm using a wire because the wireless adapters can not handle DVDRip movies I don't have Foxtel, and no Satellite dish.

The only thing I need now is 2 TV points (one at the Rumpus and one at the Family Room), and three phone points (1 at the Rumpus to be used as the incoming ADSL signal, 1 at the kitchen, and 1 at the master bedroom).

The question is, would it be cheaper to install the StarServe system later on ? (single storey home). I might as well use the money allocated for the Starserve on the downlights

If you don't get it installed now, I guessing you'll never get it installed.

Please don't take my comments as a criticism but your reasoning, which is fully valid by the way, is all about the WOW factor. I.e. spend $5k on the new TV, and $500 on the new audio system.

We all have budget constraints, and anyone that has ever built or in fact owned a home will know full well the expenses don’t stop when you get handed the keys. So if the downlights are a more important feature for you at this point in time then go for it.

Non taken. It's not about the WOW factor, it's more about future assurances. I recently started asking myself, do I really need the Starserve system ? I'm quite happy with my current cheap setup, so when I get Foxtel or a satellite dish, then I'd start thinking about it. You never know, by that time, Clipsal might come up with some method of transferring HD signals over the existing cables.

It’s also about priorities and lifestyle, if what you currently have does the job you need it to do then why change, this I agree with 100%. I bought a PVR last week to record TV programs I keep missing out on watching during the week, as a bonus it also allows the streaming of video, this now gives me a third streaming device, i.e. now I can watch streamed video both HD and SD content from my HT server via LAN on three different systems without interfering with what others want to watch.

BTW my WOW comment was based on the consideration of redirecting funds from basically a hidden/non descript product to a visual one, hence the use of the TV/audio analogy (probably not a good one to use).

Thanks TDG,

My BIL came around tonight to discuss the electricals...and we are getting Starserve now. He got a fantastic deal on it and we would've been crazy not to take advantage of it

Coincedently, he also said almost exact what you said about the technology heading IP based and the Cat 5 & 6 cables. Oh and also about the CCTV on all tv's too...

I'm feeling much better about Starserve....must admit that the price played a huge hand, but after learning more about it and what it could do, now and in the future, l'm convinced that it will be money well spent.

Thanks TDG.....your post really helped ...mainly because l don't believe in coincidences

Let's see:
Media computer (records and streams TV and audio)
A3 laser printer
Inkjet colour printer
Scanner
Work computer
Web server Linux box
3 boys + wife = 4 desktops

Now that's 10 ports already. When any of our boys holds a LAN party, they invite a variable number of friends along, each bringing their own computer. I think around 8 or so extra computers have been placed on the network.

Who needs a 24 port switch? We've got one - and it's used!

I'm not sure that I'd want to lock myself into a proprietary system.

Don't forget that CAT 5e cables can also handle telephone.

A thread on www.slashdot.org, a web site for nerds, on a similar topic, has convinced me that installing conduit is the way to go, as this is more future proof than a proprietary system. To start, CAT 5e cable can be run through the conduit.

With audio capable computers already in most rooms of the house, I'm not convinced that we need something like StarServe. Everyone wants different music, and if I want multiple rooms to be playing the same audio, I can stream the audio over the computer network. I am able to stream live TV from our media computer and control channels etc with free software (e.g. VCL).

Any chance you can give us a link to the thread? Having trouble finding it. I'm in the same boat, trying to figure out how to wire up the house.

Is it absolutely impossible to do wiring without ripping the place to pieces in a double storey if you need to do some later on? I've got a family of sparkies including one who has wired his whole house with starserve and cbus so there's definitely someone experienced there.

My thoughts are that I'll just get the place wired up with cat5e through to a patch panel with my phone line running directly to it so i can switch ports to telephone wherever i need it. For video, I'll just run HDMI cables or something between the HT and upstairs lounge / master bedroom. I'll also get the main open plan area and alfresco wired for audio through to the HT. Maybe infrered repeaterto one open spot in the open plan area and one each to the upstairs lounge and master bedroom for control of the tv/receiver.

I get the feeling many are missing the point.

If you’re going to have your house wired up with LAN cables then one end of these cables need to be terminated at a common point.

1. You can just have the cables hanging out the wall and terminated whatever way you see fit, and have any associated hardware laying anywhere it will fit.

2. You can use six gang plates with RJ45 sockets installed as the point of termination, likewise the patch leads will be on show and any associated hardware will need to be put somewhere.

3. You can install a data cabinet and have all your points terminated in the cabinet along with any hardware all out of sight.



4. Or you can install a flush cabinet with all your data points terminated, have any hardware installed all out of sight.



Now 1 & 2 options you can also have your RG6 cables terminated also, again quite messy, but from some peoples comments I’ve read in some posts, they’re happy with this.

Or if you use option 3 or 4 then your RG6 cables can also be terminated in a nice tidy manner out of sight.

Remember this is your house, and you can have it setup whatever way you see fit, myself I prefer neat and tidy in a nondescript out of sight cabinet. I’ve seen full height data cabinets installed into a recess with rear access via another room also work well, albeit expensive, I’ve also seen one set into a HT room with the shelves used to accommodate the equipment and it works a treat, also being set into a custom recess reduces the industrial look.

There is no hard and fast rule, do whatever you feel is right for you!

Sorry, the link should have been
slashdot.org
This time I tested before posting.

The link to the main thread on wiring is:
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/12/229231

I hope this helps.