Looking at Metricon Vantage 48 (H&L)

Hi everyone,

TLDR: I'm exploring building the Vantage 48 in a H&L package.
What can I do post handover to save money?
Can I tile the bathroom myself? My uncle in law is a tiler and I'll be able to get the tiles and tiling done at a fraction of the cost.

So far I'm exploring my options. It's very early days and I've read a lot of the threads and discovered nso much helpful advice already.

It's still very early days so sorry if a bit premature it's a house and land package and I'm trying to work out if we can get a reasonable final product in budget. I have to build the Vantage 48 unfortunately I was really was keen on the Sovereign but the developer guidelines and easement meant longer designs weren't viable. The Vantage is a beautiful house though.

As of writing I've only paid a holding deposit of $1000 for land and $1500 for the building. So If I can't make the changes I want and make it work within a reasonable price point I'm happy to walk away and keep looking. The sales rep seems really "nice" and willing to work with me. I know it's his job but at least we're working together. The current promotion is the free S Series promotion which includes quite a bit or $40k off the base price. So far what I'm looking to change (updated)

Ground floor
[ul:153mg98r]
[li:153mg98r]Rumpus/Theatre room [Can't build because of the easement but we might be able to convert the outdoor room instead][/li:153mg98r]
[li:153mg98r]Bedroom 5 with shared ensuite [This will be the home office/guest bedroom][/li:153mg98r]


Dream would be to have each bedroom with an ensuite but I may be over complicating things. One option is to just add the extra bedroom on the first floor and have 3or4 minor bedrooms sharing the one bath/pdr room but that seems a bit underwhelming.

Post handover work
I want to explore having tiling done myself. I was told I can't tile the bathrooms myself because they can't leave without tiling? Also if we go with the S Series package (which is free promotion atm) we won't be getting any credits for the floors etc. So It might be a better idea to go with the standard designer inclusions and take $40k off the base price. Upgrade the ceiling, doors and stairs and then take the credits for the rest.

Would love to hear any and all opinions and I'll share more as I know more.

Metricon vs. Softley. Take a read. Good luck.

Builder must tile the wet areas, because of water proofing approval. I guess you can tile the walls yourself post, but then you'll have to get the same tiles they use etc... which is leaves you with very limited options.

Volume builders make it very difficult on purpose for you to do much post hander with their "Packages".
"Packages" pretty much locks you into all their basic range stuff. And removing anything doesn't give you any credit.
At the same time, they provide valve for some of things you do need, so it makes it hard not to do it.

Thanks mate. I'll continue having a look and this definitely gives me cause for concern. I appreciate the information.

I just don't think I'd be able to afford a low volume builder ( plus finding land has been hard enough rn we're very late to the party).

Also probably not unique to Metricon, all volume builders would have similar QC issues. However the court case does actually give me some comfort knowing people have been successful through the courts.

I'll continue researching, is this unique to waffle slabs and is it only Metricon? More research needed.



Thanks Dulie,
I'll speak to my partner's uncle and get his opinion. We might be able to pick tiles we can source after the fact but I'll make a note of this to continue researching.

I know insulation and sound is important to me. Which is why I don't want to cheap out on flooring, doors and insulation. We're planning to have a lot of children (tbc after the first one).

So it looks like Hebel powerfloor is a must.

I think you seriously underestimate what a 48sq Metricon house is going to cost you. At the price you'll end up paying, you most definitely have plenty of options.

All builders will have QC issues, not all builders have such public cases where they tried to defend their absolute carelessness and negligence.

I had a conversation about this issue with Metricon when I was doing my due diligence when looking for a new builder. They gave me a huge spiel about how they've changed and how they now have extra checks and balances (read: higher site costs) and how they know they aren't the cheapest builder, but how they believe these extra costs they charge result in a better product blah blah blah. A lot of people would just take that at face value. Head on over to the one of the many unhappy metricon customer facebook groups (they're mostly private, so you'll have to ask to join) and take a look at what all the extra cost bought those people. Those groups have thousands of members. To me, it was 100% not worth the risk.

The heave that was described in the case is most common in waffle slabs on highly reactive soils and is builder agnostic. The challenge is that on paper under simulations these all perform like they are supposed to. However, the simulations aren't built around flooded sites, broken pipes, poor maintenance during and after build or negligence.

If you're going volume, you wont get much love in way of getting an alternate slab type unless the engineer calls for it. Given the engineers are working for the builder, you can expect they will apply the cheapest working solution and whack a thousand caveats and conditions on it. Some of those will be up to you to manage after hand over too. If you're building on non reactive soils, this is less of a concern

Managing those conditions is key to making sure you don't end up like the Softleys. Many volume builders do an exceptional job in managing those conditions, others don't and on that you'll need to do some research. A good example is how builders take care with temporary down pipes. Some builders install those cheap "plastic bag" style temp pipes that get blown out of the storm water connection the moment someone walks by instead of something more suitable.

Thanks Noname I'll keep this in mind

If we want to build on this lot we'll have to go with Metricon as this development is an exclusive. We've left it quite late and really there's no guarantee we'll be able to buy land in the area. Although there is plenty of lands it's just not for sale.

I'm not saying the Vantage 48 will be cheap but I'll know more once the quote comes in. However based off of the BOM cost so far I'm unsure how the package is what it is.

I'll update with pricing once I'm ready to sign.

Reserved (title: things I'm working on)

As I go I'd like to list all the little extras I'm chasing. Once I resolve/answer them I'll move them to the other post and link the resolution.

- Understanding categories. Base categories vs designer vs luxury upgrades vs higher category upgrades.
- Facade choice questions.
- Quote for airconditioning after hand over
- Quote for floorplan changes
- Cost to upgrade heating system to accommodate AC upgrade
- Tiling for ground floor, realistic budget and tile selection.
- Carpet costs
- Upstairs flooring (can I do this post or is it better to get it done with the builder. Timber vs Carpet. Compare the categories.
- Downstairs electrical vs upstairs electrical. Are the included lights, fixtures, data points etc enough.
- I need to get an understanding of flooring selection for the budget.
- Bathroom tiling, how realistic is it to finish the tiling myself? I want to plan/budget for this now. If I tile only the wet areas what does that leave? How hard is it to source the tiles Metricon use?
- Are 3m ceilings realistic?
- Prewire for solar cost?
- What solar array can I fit on the roof?
- Bock is north facing
- 3 phase power


Questions:
Facade choice: Do facades have any practical differences and benefits or are they just a pretty face?

Reserved. (Things I've resolved)

Facade choice: Do facades have any practical differences and benefits or are they just a pretty face? I've Only really ever lived in old houses/apartments. All I know is double brick 🤷‍♂️ I know they don't build them like they used to but other than the fact both the houses I live in have stood for over 100 years. They can be poorly insulated at times.

I get that looks are important but I think there's only a few facades you'll ever get $ back? However what's the point of having a boss facade of the internal are not up to scratch.

I want something I can easily maintain and if in 5-10-15 years I want to upsell maybe I can easily render or repaint to make it look refreahed. I also have to be practical with costs and budget. If it came down to an upgraded facade and Hebel powerfloor I think the powerfloor has priority or upgraded kitchen and facade. Would welcome all opinions and options.


Keep or lose the voids?: IInitially we're losing the voids but I may be able to reconfigure the 5 bed 1st floor floor plan and keep the front void which will give the grand entrance a ~6m ceiling. However noise becomes a factor. Voids are nice & grand and if you have the space to allocate then go for it but I really am just focussing on getting as much living space as possible but I just hope that I'm not killing the character of the house.

Note: Good idea for a standalone thread.

If you lose the voids, you lose the grandeur of that home. Re the entry void, who cares about the noise, it's the kids bedrooms. Besides who is going to be making noise in that part of the house when the kids are sleeping? The dining void is a feature of the house. That will be the wow factor for guests and for resale. Otherwise it just looks like every other McMansion. Also making those changes will cost significantly.

Facades, one of the biggest rip offs from most builders. example, one of Henley's nicest modern facades on a similar sized home cost around 40k. However Street appeal can't be discounted. Resale value is affected here. Plus you gotta look at it every day you pull in from work. Anything with a balcony will add significant expense and risk if not build properly.

North facing block. Assuming you mean the front of the house will be facing north? Based on the configuration of the house, it is literally the worst orientation for it. Your living areas will be facing south and west (south east depending if you flip). Expect likely additional costs for meeting basix requirements.

Re the categories. Base category is generally trash. There is nothing in my house chosen from the base range. my 32 sq single story is 150k in upgrades alone more than base. Even then, those aren't ultra speced upgrades. Base price and base categories is what they have to get you in the door and thinking you'll get the house for the advertised price. Many people end up with homes they're not happy with because they don't have money to upgrade beyond the base price. The upgraded categories are often overpriced, however you can generally make a mix and end up with a satisfactory outcome. Beside lots of people like the basic caeserstones over the more fancy ones - eh if you like a white modern kitchen, you'll find that the only thing you're likely upgrading is the appliances. If you like a hamptons kitchen, you'll find the profiling of the cabinets blowing out your cost expectations etc.

Base carpet is like office carpet. Base tiling looks cheap AF and those that don't often have low variation meaning you get obvious repeats you can't unseen when you see them. Base timber laminate - nasty and often not water resistant.
Expect to pay a lot for flooring if done through the builder.

Electrical. Expect to spend about 14k per floor for the luxury house (based on builder price). They never give you enough lighting and fixtures in the base spec fyi. They're there to entice you to spend more on a specific fixture. E.g. having included downlights in the living entry and kitchen means you will have likely 50% of what you actually need and they will be the cheapest fitting possible. SO at the very least you will be upgrading the number of fixtures and then debating on upgrading the quality. Once you have increased the number of fixtures, your eon the hook for an increase in the quality, because youre making a luxury house, why skimp on $hitty plastic fixtures that will yellow over time?

For such a large house, AC likely won't be an add on cooling unit. You'll likely need to go reverse cycle and you're going to be gouged here. Primarily because of the double story and ducting needing to go in during the build. Many builders are nowadays not doing ducting for you so you can do after hand over which forces you to get the builder to install. Some builders are charging 32k for a 24kw actron system (biggest residential one they make) that can do a large single floor home, you're going to either have to compromise, mix up the cooling solutions, get a commercial system or bend over. one person i know building their dream home has spend upwards of 70k on a top end HVAC.

you mentioned earlier that the advertised price for the package was 1.25M and you were hoping to get them down to 1.1M. By looking at your updated posts, that's not going to happen. I predict you're going to be in the hole of upwards of 1.5minimum and you're not going to get everything you want at that price even. I'd love to hear where you land out of curiosity and what you feel about the experience. Where are you building by the way?

Re void and aspect:
Thanks mate. You're giving me so much to think about

Definitely something to consider, I've been speaking to a few friends who are agents (some sell in the area) to get their opinions on it. They suggested to keep the void as it will be the feature point of the house and will assist with letting more light into the house. As you mentioned that might be a premium because of the lot direction and design. I don't think the costs will be that much in filling them because the 46 doesn't have the voids and the cost is 20k between the two. But you're right because of the block orientation the extra light that will come in from the voids will be a huge difference.

Block is North East facing with a south west garden and subsequently living area.

Lot 3 is the proposed lot.
[img:3hcbs9gp]https://i.imgur.com/9E2itCH.png[/img:3hcbs9gp]
[img:3hcbs9gp]https://i.imgur.com/OOmUkSP.png[/img:3hcbs9gp]

Re: Facade
Thanks will keep this in mind, no real interest in a balcony. I didn't even think we could facilitate it with the majority of designs unless it's a shared balcony or something? I'm thinking about the Mode facade but the cost might mean I have to go with something else.

[b:3hcbs9gp]Stamford - The facade in the package - waiting on facade prices tomorrow[/b:3hcbs9gp]
[img:3hcbs9gp]https://i.imgur.com/jv7hfvT.png[/img:3hcbs9gp]

Re categoriesories:
What's the happy medium you think? My philosophy in life is bougie on a budget.

There's lots of moving parts but we're looking at approx. 75-150 in upgrades depending on a few factors. We're paying about 100k more for the lot than we'd ideally like and 150k more than smaller lots in the neighboring suburb.

If we contract out tiling and flooring what could we realistically save? I know that's a kind of how long is a piece of string question but if we were trying to go middle of the road. Because upgraded flooring and carpets are already included in the s series package I don't think I'd be able to get a credit for them. I'm hoping come selection that they might work with me for example if we delete the ground tiling we might be able to upgrade the carpets in the longue and ground bedroom. Likewise deleting the first floor flooring we might be able to upgrade the carpets in the bedroom but I'm not hopeful. They are running a 40k off promotion the 3 upgrades that stand out are the ceiling heights and staircase. So if I'm doing the flooring myself it might be worth while taking the 40k and then using the credits toward upgrading rooms? Or probably not?

Re electrical:
My goal here is to make sure the ground floor is covered. The first floor can be done after the fact so if we're at 50% coverage out the bat I'd only be looking at another 25% coverage with the first floor to come later down the track. Is there a big difference between quality of downlights? If we go with pendants I'll do them after because I hear it's a rort through the builder.

Re cooling:
Ducted heating is standard. I've read other being able to upgrade the ducted heating through the builder and then upgrading post hand over.

Re:
We're getting close I'll know more Monday. I'm building in Melbourne north.

Boy are you in for a ride.

Just a comment on the ac. Yes ducted heating is standard. Pretty sure heating has to be provided. It's not a luxury inclusion. But it will be ducted to the relevant ducts sizes and fuel. When you do an add on cooling system, the heater has to be upgraded to allow for a bigger fan and as such the ducts have to be bigger too to support the airflow. You'll find that add on cooling systems aren't going to be an efficient way or nay even a possible way to cool such a large house. Ergo, the ducted heating is moot. Why pay to upgrade these things if when you hand over you get told the addon cooling won't be enough and you'll need a reverse cycle electric unit? See where I'm going with this?

You're seeing these inclusions the way they are designed to be seen. You think you'll do this thing, or get this thing, then when you're 5% deposit in sitting in your electrical appointement, you'll learn you've seriously misunderstood what youre getting vs what you wanted. Then it's a matter of coming up with all this extra cash or pulling out and losing the deposit. What do you think is the common outcome at that point? Most people bend over and take it. They're emotionally and financially invested.

I suggest taking a trip to the selection studios and getting a tour and prices/upgrades explained, touch and feel the finishes and get a better ball park idea of what you're in for. At least you can prepare and lube up before the main event.

Ahh I think I might be missing something here. My understanding was this. Upgrade the standard ducts, zones, electrical, etc as if I were going with the split system ac from the builder in the first place.Then post handover it's just a matter of Installing the 21 kW unit and piping everything in. That way you get all the internals of the cooling system done by the builder when it's easy and you save the stupid mark up on the unit. Are you saying that this is probably a pipedream?


Re studio trip: As soon as we're out of lockdown we'll make it our top priority.

Re: Final figure. I'm budgeting for at least 150k on upgrades at selection. Originally we planned to allocate more but the extra 100k is going to the land. Flooring and cooling to come post handover.

That being said we haven't totally thrown out the idea of going smaller and we still have a few weeks to run the numbers and come up with a realistic final figure before we enter into commitment territory.

Yes that is likley a pipe dream. The ducts will be sized to the unit installed. So you can't just upgrade the ducts to larger than the standard unit allows. They likley won't fit and the builder could refuse to do so as it would impact performance if you changed your mind later. The other thing to considder is that the location and platform size for the indoor unit may vary based on size of the unit. They're not all the same and the builder may have various truss layouts to accommodate the systems they work with for that part of the roof.

You'll fi d lining up all of this business is a PITA. Additionally if you go after Hannd over the indoor unit will need to be lifted in through the roof. So colourbond will come off, sarking/anticon will be penetrated, and battens cut. Something to keep in mind.

If it's done by the builder they do it in stages. They lift the unit in place before the roofing material goes up, then ducts and when electrical rough in and finally the out door unit closer to hand over.

The extra you pay to have this done this way is somewhat worth it, but you need to be mindful of over gouging.

Also 21kw for a 48sq is a pipedream. You might have 21kw for downstairs, and 15-18 for upstairs. But the calcs will be done by the installer so you'll find out after you are on the line for the build.

Gotcha! You've given me a lot to think about!

What will also likley happen is you have a conversation with the aircon people and they will try to understand how you live now or plan to in the new home.

This conversation is to get an idea of how to zone the system and work out which rooms will be used concurrently. This will be used to calculate the max kw for use at a given time.

So if you're wanting to cool the whole house at the same time (ie you plan on having kids that will likley spread their time across the house) you need to account for that. Otherwise they'll give you a system that either cools the bedrooms or the living areas but not both at the same time. My advice is go with a system that give you the flexibility to do either or both. Not one or the other.

My advice with the Vantage 48 is to go to the display home and sit in the upstairs lounge room and listen while other people are walking around the house talking. The voids look absolutely beautiful and are the real feature of that house, but they are sound tunnels. There is a standard option to replace the dining void with a 5th bedroom, though.

A couple of years ago IIRC the Stamford facade was in the +25k range.

For our Merricks 42 house, with double-glazed windows and all Hebel construction, the 21 kW Actron system works well. At night with the heating off after 10pm in winter, the minimum house temperature was around 15C by 7am. In summer, it takes about 20 mins to cool the house to 23C when there are several rooms at 30C. Our electrical use (in average kWh/day, mostly in lockdown, all working from home all year) went from about 26 in January, to 15 in March, to 40 in July.

we are building a Vantage46 with M at the moment. The size and floor plan are very similar to 48 but without the void, as we want to maximize the floor area

Thanks for your input everyone. Will hopefully have some good news to share re land in the coming weeks. We decided not to proceed with the H&L package as is.

The land was about $50k more while still in our budget didn't seem like good value. We missed out on a release in arguably a better area which was 117k-122k cheaper for the 450's and the 512's were 85k cheaper. Because of the easements despite being larger and wider block at 560m2 it had less effective building area and was shorter than the 450m2 blocks 30m vs 32. In addition there was a bout 15k in additional expenses. Corner lot treatment and BAL compliance.


On goal to hit our savings target to unlock the rest of the funds but our funding is all approved. Still have a lot of research to do just about finding the right block now.