Are eaves false economy for east and west?

Hi all,

Im a big believer in eaves. We have built and now living in our new PD cremorne41, with 450mm eaves. I must say they do offer some weather protection. Also when it rains the bricks dont cop a beating. Brickies do say that homes without eaves have more issues with the mortar on the top storey in particular the west side..

Eaves do increase the value of your home, when it comes to sale time. In my opinion eaves do complete the home, gives it that wider appearance. Some homes I agree look great without them, but with the cremorne airlington facade, the eaves look great, with the added benefits........hey thats my opinion....we all have different opinions, colour choices & preferences but at the end of the day its your home, as long as your happy thats what matters.

IMO - Big eaves to the west do work - mine are 6 meteres out and it stops all but the last of the summer sun

IMO - east and west eaves are worth it - the big advantage is they stop the sun heating the bricks during the main part of the day =not just early am and late pm.

As for north - yes but they need to be designed to shelter in summer and let the sun come in in winter.

and as eager says - eaves good for actually good at protecting your asset (ie house) (and the pooches and wheelie bins ) from the elements.

My thoughts
Steve

Take a drive out in the country......ever wondered why country houses have six foot verandahs......protects the weatherboards and windows, shades the house, you can open the windows when it's wet, there's always a cool spot, there's always a dry spot, spot to leave your muddy boots, a spot to hang the washing, and the dog can live near the house....we could learn a little bit about efficient house design from our pioneers......

I understand that eaves are good. No argument here. But as far as suburbia goes, we're not talking usually talking about 6 metre eaves and 6 foot verandahs.   I understand all the benefits of ideally designed eaves.
But I have eaves where I am now and rain still gets in all the upstairs windows so I don't know how much protection suburbian size eaves really give on that score. I do understand the potential benefits.
BUT in general, the eaves are 450mm or 600mm.
I guess my point is that they are being sold as the be all and end all of protection from the elements and for those on a budget would the 3k - 4k that it costs to add eaves be better invested in other measures that will give much more effective protection on the east and west elevation.
Some buyers are thinking the eaves will protect them from the west sun and as 'chelle said, it ain't gonna happen...
As I said in my intro even some of the governement websites are saying that they are pretty useless on the east and west elevations for sun protectio.
I just think that maybe rather than the simple answer being eaves all around, maybe a less simplistic design approach that addresses each elevation as a different, yet related issue is better than saying 600mm all around.
Jo

I think that the point I was making.......have a look at a house that's designed for the "elements" i.e. a house that has been sitting in the Australian climate for generations and that will give you a hint as to how a house should be designed....ergo 450 - 600 mm eaves are pretty much an aesthetic add-on IMO......spend the money elsewhere...like a plasma.....climate change is far more spectacular in High Def......

Point taken, Steve, but the point I was trying to make was in relation to people who are choosing standard sized eaves on their standard sized block....I suppose the people who are opting for eaves based primarily on aesthetic reasons and then hear all this talk about how great eaves are. I think they may be disappointed when they don't get the benefits from the eaves that they've heard about.

I have read someone on this forum saying.."I'll be OK, I've got eaves to block out the western sun" and they were referring to 450mm eaves...that's what I mean when I said "It aint goin' to happen"

I'm not saying that they are not worth it, but just that a lot of people don't understand how they work I suppose...But then we are lucky that we've got you to help us out

Re-reading that, it sounds sarcastic, but I meant it genuinely. I'm a relative new comer to this whole thing...well.... have been looking into it for a couple of years but anyway..I think I'll just shut up now

By the way, your place sounds very interesting, what with it's 6m eaves and boudior with water views upstairs .When are we going to see some pics


Cheers

I was responding to the general discussion so far, not particularly to your comment Mike. It's not all about you.   I just find it a little uncomfortable when we agree......  

Jo

We only have 200mm eaves, I was wishing we had made them larger (450mm) but now that I read they wouldn't do much more I'm glad we didn't bother (interpretation: didn't even think about it ). Aesthetically I think 200mm looks fine.

I agree.....

No, no, no.

I don't think Jo was trying to say that, well I wasn't anyway. Jo was referring specifically to eaves on the east and west.

Eaves are very important, and the wider the better upto a certain point. You just need to think a bit about it and the angle of the sun. In the early morning and late evening the sun is very low and so the eaves are not as effective. But in the middle of the day they are very important, especially in the middle of summer.

It depends of course on where you live and whether you want a lot of sun in winter etc.

Generally the standard 450 mm eave is good at keeping out the hot summer sun but letting in the warm winter sun. Smaller eaves means you will get sun into the house (on the northern side) when you don't necessarily want it, ie early summer and late summer.



I'm not making things any clearer....am I?

This makes it much clearer

http://www.yourhome.gov.au/technical/pubs/fs44.pdf

So if your walls extend to the floor, H = 2700 mm therefore eaves should be 0.45 x 2700 = 1215 mm ('bout 4 foot) ....seems the pioneers where pretty close ....

ok thanks 'chelle ... now I am sad again

only joking. and I wasn't referring to any post in particular, just my interpretation of the vein of the discussion in general.

Those drawings seem to make sense but I am not too technically minded so am not going to worry myself about it now. Half of my north side will be alfresco which we will get half-covering for at some stage anyway, the other half I have just arranged for the windows to be raised 300mm to let more sun in ! I guess deeper eaves would have helped here but you live and learn.

I'll get deeper eaves on the next one we build

TDL - if my ceilings are 3m and my windows are now 300mm higher than they were, how deep should my eaves be??

The height refers to the height of the windows, so yes if you have full length windows...although as Steve and others have said, there are advantages to shading your walls too.

Oh and in general..walls usually extend to the floor

That's what I meant...most houses have windows to the floor, or very close to it, therefore for effective shading you need 1200 mm eaves. Working backwards 450 mm eaves protect your walls to 1000 mm, not even half and this is on the north.....going back to Jo's original premise I'm becoming more and more skeptical about the cost/benefit of eaves. Pretty soon you get to a breakeven point were the astronomical charges by builders for eaves is not worth it compared to the more effective ways you could shade your windows.

I think all new home builders should spend some time playing with a little model house and model sun!

Controversial statement of the day: eaves or permanent window shading should be compulsory on all new builds.

Personally, I'm sick to death of seeing rows and rows of box houses with huge cooling units. I despise summer power failures due to demand overload when hundreds of thousands of people turn their air conditioners on.
Keeping these houses shaded even for just a few extra hours a day when the sun is almost directly overhead would at least help a little to reduce this ridiculous dependency on artificial cooling. Ditto ducted heating in winter!

If you build a brand new home and it is not comfortable on a 33 degree day - YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG!!!!!

Sorry, end of rant for now!

No, No, No, Mike! That is not the lesson you are meant to learn from this.

Help, Steve!!!


OK yes, you are right, for full length windows the standard eaves are not ideal, but they are better than nothing and are still quite good at blocking out most of the summer sun. There are sites you can go to where you can work out sun angles for where you live and so work out when you will get the sun etc. A bit too technical for me.

http://solardat.uoregon.edu/SunChartProgram.html

Because we are going down the custom build route, I can't really comment on the cost effectiveness of eaves. For us passive design was our priority and we will compromise on other things (we will most probably have bean bags in the formal lounge for quite some time ). I can't stand 'uncomfortable' houses, where you have to have the heaters going all winter, and really, in Tassie there should be no need for aircon

I've been in many passive solar houses and they are great. Our neighbours have a straw bale house (no, not the neighbours I mentioned in neri's thread on vegie gardens ) In the middle of winter, they use a small fan heater for 15 min in the morning and sometimes another 15 min in the evening. And even the more 'conventional' houses are great.

As I said earlier, I think it should come back to developers, in the way they design the subdivisions, and the big builders, in the way they design their houses, then the average Joe wouldn't need to weigh up the cost benefits of passive solar design. What is needed is an industry wide change in attitudes.

OK, I think I've said enough...I'll put my soap box away

Completely agree - the major builders need some serious re-education!
There are so many project home designs that would struggle to be even remotely solar passive on any block orientation (all the designs with 'wraparound' bedrooms and a home theatre on the back). In Victoria our five star energy rating system is an absolute joke. Our house rated over six stars if you pointed it in ANY direction - even if the four largest windows faced due south.

Glad they don't - it is a chilly 12 or 13 degrees outside but our living area is floating around the 20 degree mark ... with no artificial heating (and the doors being opened multiple times for hubby to come in and watch swimming finals!).

eaves - gee it must be 12 months since a good discussion like this has been started

I still think that an eave of some type is usefull in protecting the house and walls from a leak - even if it only a 6 inch eave. 12 is better. (15 and 40cm for those who don't understand inches)

As Mike said - our pioneers had it right - large verandahs, always a spot to get away from the sun, in the warmth etc. ideal

Next best thing - east - not really an issue, plant some nice trees - that will shade the front pretty well.
North - lots of ideal measurements there. Do it as a priority
West - keep them low as possible, and out as far as you can go. External blinds work best.
South - just enough to protect the house.

chelle - pics - one day. Internals nearly finsihed = pics soon
Externals - later.
But the views are still as good as ever =
Sailing season soon - gee maybe things will slow down again