Metricon signature vs custom builder

Mate, any builder can do concrete bored piers - how is this a differentiator?

It's the engineers who design the slab not the builder.

And btw it's "Infiniti" not Infinity...

it was one of probably 1000 examples he could have given you. He gave you others, like the wood used in framing. Stick frame vs prefab. Two chippie crews just to make sure a job is straight etc.. You've obviously been sucked in by the Metricon marketing and you don't want to hear it, even when the guy who is telling you has extensive experience with both Metricon and high end builders and is a builder himself. Even happy to back up his sales evidence data... I can smell the cognitive dissonance from here

A volume builder's engineers have a vested interest to do things as cheap as possible to keep being engaged by the builder. So they will design things to the bare minimum and apply caveats all over the work that in effect are easy to overlook or disregard because the site will barely be monitored. take a look at your engineering notes. as you build, let us know how diligently they are being met by the trades and builder.

like it matters

Metricon NSW wiil only engage their remedial carpenters, ie 'The finishing touch pty ltd' to straighten the crooked frame if your private inspector notes that its defective and only if you push them hard. Ignorance is bliss!

Hi Simeon,

Interesting discussion.

I'm currently doing with Metricon -> Lumiere 70 (signature) -> Trinity Point, Morisset Park.
Due to issues with improper communication and delays that were not expected, seriously thinking of backing out. Only staying along for now due to the 5% deposit that was paid to go to Studio M.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=102095 -> You can understand my plight here if interested.

I was in initial discussion with a couple of Custom Builders in the area but one of them was not clear how he could do it and the other quoted me approx $3900/Sqft as he wanted to gain much as he could. I even had a custom plan approved from council before we moved to Metricon.

As mentioned in a few posts, It's all about marketing for Metricon. We went with them as the there are a few in the area and they were pretty fast before Covid struck, hence thought it would be the same. Now they've got Covid to blame and not their slow process. I'm concerned my $1.5 M will go down the drain.

Do you Custom Build only in Sydney & surrounds or do you do past Central Coast??

Suggest asking Metricon NSW to validate their provìsional costs in the contract with facts such as recent similar, in area, builds' actual hydraulics & basix etc. costs before you sign. Typically they tend to deliberately mis-represent and 'low ball' these costs to close you and you dont want a circa $50k nasty 'surprise' at the end. BTW Metricon has enough experience (and customer complaints) to know the likely real costs!

Thanks Mate.

I'll do that definitely.

Especially Hydraulics. They will low ball it in the provision. Actuals are significantly higher depending on what your stormwater engineer plan states.

ajzmjd

Firstly, I read your post and I am sorry you are having an unhappy experience.

I think I know what is going on, and I would be happy to try and fill in the detail with some background for you.

Having said that, I feel really sorry for the poor staff who received your unhappy feedback as it would have been out of their control. But hey, who else can you complain too .

My confession is that we have been having some of the same design problems over the last few months. We use 3 external design teams and allocate work depending on the clients budget. One of our teams was absolutely incredible turning around the most amazing designs in under 2 weeks. Then since the June lockdown last year they have been incredibly slow, to the point that I have had to beg forgiveness from two wonderful clients who have every right to yell and scream at me, but thankfully their personalities and far better than mine and so far they haven't screamed at me.

Going forward I wont be allocating any more work to them until they demonstrate significant improvement.

Back to Metricon, I was the GM of their NSW duplex and townhouse business called Townliving by Metricon. We were doing around 200 homes per year. Left this role 5 years ago, so my comments could be outdated.

It's hard to comprehend how big Metricon are until you go to Melbourne and see their operation. It is insanely huge and impressive. They basically control the Melbourne market which means that get the best trades and supply deals in Melbourne.

As a result, the quality of their builds in Melbourne is also quite impressive.

In Sydney by comparison at the time I was there, they were a relatively minor player.

The business was all structured so that all of the central or core business operations was run out of Melbourne, such as estimating, accounting and drafting.

I had three major frustrations running a NSW business with it's core services in Melbourne being:

1. Drafting - every design change had to go through Melbourne, it was so incredibly slow and we had no ability to walk across the office and sit with the drafting team in person to make sure they were working on the project and getting the details correct

2. Estimating - with the estimating being done in Melbourne they would often use Melbourne prices and then we had to find Sydney trades for Melbourne prices. One of my favourite anecdotes is that in 2014 they gave me $13 to paint an alfresco ceiling. Try finding paint for $13 let alone a painter will do two coats.

3. Attracting quality staff & trades - As I mentioned earlier, Metricon NSW was in my time not a major player and with Melbourne rates we struggled to find good supervisors and trades who would work for our prices.

What I think is happening with yours, is that the NSW staff are sending your plans down to Victoria and there is a delay from the major crazy boom time we have experienced recently.

If they are still doing the drafting and estimating in Melbourne the Sydney staff are probably just as frustrated as you are. That doesn't excuse the delays and maybe they should handle timing expectations better.

Have to run and get to work now, but happy to chat off line and see if I can find some people you can call.

Unfortunately we don't build out of Sydney as we don't have the trade base to do so.

Have a great day

Simeon

Pity the poor Metricon NSW operations staff forced to work in such a frustrating, disfunctional, under-resourced environment. No wonder staff turnover is so high.

Perhaps Metricon HO in Melbourne could consider diverting some of their significant resources currently devoted to marketing, social media management, sales, accounts receivable, legal defense and football teams to actually delivering the promised reasonable quality product on time.

Alternatively, Metricon NSW's salespeople could manage their prospective customers' expectations by clearly and honestly representing what product 'quality' is usually delivered and providing realistic project timing estimates, given Metricon's high volume & low cost business model.

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

What I forgot to add is that last time I checked I think they were doing around 4,700 dwellings per year, which is insane, so when you need changes to plans you going into the queue.

But on your note about spending less money on marketing and social media, one of the things that really depressed my team when we were fighting to build quality and find trades and fulfil contracts was that they went and spent around $60m buying an italian soccer team. But I was meant to paint a 3 bedroom duplex for $2500.

So that wasn't good for morale.

Anyhow, as I said my info is 5 years old and they may have corrected some of these issues.

And they do build a nice home for project home standards and I believe that they are a nice group of people who mean well. It's just that in my time NSW was a poor cousin to the mothership.

PS. You should have seen the Melbourne christmas parties! No expense spared, we flew all out partners down to Melbourne and they were so incredibly lavish. Had a good time

I appreciate that your history with them and your current position in the industry dictates what and how you say things about them.

thank you for understanding that I need to be measured

anything can be compared. It doesn't mean the comparison will be favourable.

Interesting expose on ABC yesterday about Metricon NSW behaviors: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-14/ ... /100906402

their own expert agreed there were defects lol

Kippers

When I started at Metricon I was faced with this exact problem of expansion joints being missed on a number of homes. The solution was pretty simple, we had to run some vertical saw cuts which the engineer signed off on.

So not sure why this issue has gone this far, I could speculate but probably shouldn't

Cheers

Simeon

Simeon, the solution is much easier and cheaper now. Photoshop!

Saw begone!

I laughed so hard! hillarious

Nawkaw are pretty adept at photoshop too when Metricon NSW requests their masonry matching rectification 'services' following customer complaints. These cynically photoshopped Nawkaw photos are for NSWDFT and NCAT purposes, not customers! Metricon NSW knows all the 'tricks of the trade'.