Porter Davis homes

Excellent! Thanks Heaps!

Humble,

Have you considered contacting your Sales Rep for prices? I spoke to mine early on in the process and politely asked if I could sit down with her and together we went through a number of different scenarios. Obviously, their main role is to deal with new visitors walking through the display homes but if you're willing to wait mine in particular was extremely helpful. For example, regarding brick prices they can update your original quote with a new class of brick and you can immediately see the new price. I probably spent about 30-40mins with mine during the week and I walked away with a whole list of price options.

For tile prices, I visited National Tiles and again if you are friendly to the staff they are very helpful. I spent about an hour in there one day and walked out with all of the tile prices which I was interested in. Then it’s a simple case to calculate floor areas (which you can get off the basic floor plan) plus wastage (10%) and you have a rough price.

Regarding electrical items, if you go back through this thread, these have been posted numerous times. Actually, to be honest its amazing what info is actually contained within this thread.

Hope this helps,

Chorlton

Thanks Chorlton, we did exactly that with our sales rep and were given ballpark prices 1k per catagory, what has come to light recently, is that there is very little difference in the retail price of the cat1/cat6 bricks (12c a brick)

As such, I am struggling to come to a understanding on pd's markup policy. Either the markup is over and above the retail price of the bricks by something in the range of 80% or they are getting the cat1 bricks for about 53c each and the cat6 bricks for $1.09

Either way, there is a fundamental flaw in the pricing. It appears the same will go with the flooring.

Electricals are fine as we were given fairly accurate ballparks from the sales consultant, but with the bricks and flooring I am somewhat confused, they are offering a package for the flooring but if you decide to upgrade then you may as well scratch the promotion on the flooring and do it yourself direct.

Hopetoun wont give a price over the phone, they say wait for the appointment, but its pointless us waiting till then as our selections will blow the budget away, so we need to approach this with a sense of choice 1/2/3/4 so if we do get budget pressure we can make a decision and not delay.

Personally, I cannot afford delays as I spend very very little time in Melb (this week is the only week I am in Melb between now and contract signing)

Also note that Hopetoun will only give you ball park figures on certain items and are sometimes incorrect with their estimations. With bricks and roof tiles they will not know. You will get the exact price at tender or contract. Ask your CSC to get you prices.

The brick prices I gave you are recent so I would go with it. Also note that the prices which I gave you are for Austral bricks.

From experience, load up your tender with all items you are considering as PD’s Estimators are the ones who ultimately work out the prices. My tender included everything excepted tiles and electrical. At Selections I only upgraded on a small number of things as the majority was included at tender.

What house are you building?

Humble, the project builders have very little profit margin in a basic off the rack home, and yes they do make a very good profit from some of the extras and the upgrades, that is where they make their money as they are entitled to do.

This is the best advice I got from a former forumite (Back Pocket) when I was at the beginning of the process. I struggled big time with my 10 or 12k upgrade price on my floor tiles.... that was just the upgrade price.

This is pretty much her advice to me:

You will absolutely do your head in over individual pricing and individual mark-ups so try not to get hung up on them. They will not change, they are set in stone, you either accept the price and move on or you do not select them.
Rather than worrying about individual pricing (which will drive you crazy), keep your eye on the bigger picture which is the overall per m sq price of the home, that is ultimately what is important. And with a project builder this will work out pretty reasonable even if individual items seem expensive.

Hopetoun are open weekends for browsing, so if you're free on the weekend maybe head in there and see which bricks come in which categories, you might see a brick similar to what you're wanting but for a not so steep price

Could have not said it any better myself. All I look at this the per sqm price and for what I’m getting I think it’s cheap. (actually really cheap). Customer builders would charge at least $3k more.

My biggest cost is the air-con/heating upgrade which is costing me $345 per sqm, but I’m getting the biggest and best system which Brivis has to offer.

That really is great advice.
We had issues early on with pricing, but fact is we wanted that home, we didn't want to be doing things to that home after we moved in, we could be paying tradesmen to do jobs, buying different materials, and honestly, they might not do as good a job.
And I don't want tradesmen in and out of my home for months on end, they might not be committed to my jobs and speccing things up ourselves might have taken a lot longer with heartache and financial cost.

Thanks for all the posts.. We have been to hopetoun (twice now!) and hopetoun really are hopeless when it comes to pricing, they cannot give you even a indicative cost for anything, even after our second trip, and I pushed quite a lot. Everything is about contract and tender.

That is the first failing.

Because of this, I begin to contact the suppliers directly for prices. This is so we can manage our build budget. Somehow this is important to us. Its a pointless exercise us requesting xyz upgrade and only have our contract talks lengthened, PD/Hopetoun could do a lot better in supplying clients with a list of prices. Even ballpark would be good.

Example, Hopetoun showing us the vinyl wrap, looks great doesnt it? How much? Oh, you would have to get that at tender. Well if its 4k? whats the point? ill look at other options..

My point is, as customers we have come in prepared with what we want, know exactly how and why, but if there is no price attached it really is a pointless exercise. Its a complete waste of my time as the customer if I have to research and then wait for a outcome which is 4 weeks down the road. Its great we have a build price of $198k as base, but if its a extra $100k of extra's then we have overstated our plan requirements, and in reality, I would rather compromise on how many sq's the house is or change the plan then lose some of the 'upgrades' which we would class as must haves.

I get the average cost per sq m, its what we have worked on, but some of the prices I have read here, and/or been quoted on already are beyond belief. Especially when the supplier can do it cheaper then PD.

Hi Humble,

I'm sure you can see that the forum is such a great place to talk to fellow home builders and get advice from other people that are or have been through the same experience. Also directing these pricing concerns to your Building Coordinator is best, they are there to assist you with any questions or queries you may have, I can assure you that we are here to make the building process easier for you. Please let me know how your tender appointment goes. Cheers Ebony

Thanks Ebony, I am sure you can appreciate, that the details being presented on this forum are very very informative. I dont have a pricing concern *yet* but I a suspected feeling I will have quite soon.

Bit of advice for PD however, please draw up a price list, it would have saved me (and I am sure others) from a lot of bother. Its a sad state of affairs when I need to ring suppliers to get indicative pricing, and even more frustrating when you know that wont be the price PD will offer you. If the pricebook was available then I wouldnt have even bothered to ring the suppliers.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I also disagree with some of it. I agree that it is very frustrating not having prices from Hopetoun and this is definitely something that I believe PD should look at as part of their next procedure review, but you can find pretty much anything if you do a bit of research. If you posted a thread on here with which house you are building and a list of upgrades you are looking at.... between all of us PDers giving you our costs, you will get a more accurate than ballpark figure I'd think.

This is the bit I don't really understand....


You don't honestly expect PD to be doing things same cost/cheaper than the supplier? They are not going to buy products and then charge you the same/less for it than they paid? PD like all builders is a business, they make money to pay their employees... that money comes from the extras paid by the client for their house to be built.... the extra on top of the price of materials.
I'm struggling to understand how you'd expect to be getting things for the same cost/cheaper from the builder than from the supplier.

I would have thought retail price v trade price for one. PD build a few houses, have 'volume contracts' with all the suppliers.

Ie: What Austral charge me joe random off the street, 97c a brick, I am sure the PD price is a lot better then that. Same would apply for flooring, tiles, paint, everything... if it doesnt, then the business model is flawed and there is no cost saving for a project builder (and no profit margin for them either)

So it comes back to the classic argument.

Standard Brick: Retail Price 97c Trade Price 55c
Cat6 Brick: Retail Price $1.09 Trade Price (lets say) 67c

They made 42c on the cat 1 brick already (keep that in mind) now if they charge me the $1.09 they make the same price.

Now, unless they have structured there deals with the suppliers differently, (possible) then I fail to see why there is a need for a double markup. Once on the cat1 product and then twice on the upgrade. National Tiles are another example, there are posts here where people upgraded the tiles, it retailed for $32sqm, they were charged $30sqm to upgrade, but received $0 back for the cat1's (do you really think they can get the cat1's at $2sqm?.. see where I am heading here? It costs PD nothing to upgrade, they can still take there overall margin.

But it seems, that it is accepted business practice (in the housing industry) to markup upgrades at a higher rate. The margin is still there for the builder. Why does a upgrade mean a higher margin all of a sudden? I sell software for a living, for a large software provider, the markup is flat regardless of product. If a customer wants a special version, the markup is still the same. I am challenged by the fact that it appears different in the building industry.

We use a volume builder to leverage the cost benefits they can negotiate by using the volume card, I dont expect the cost to be higher then the retail price for the same product. If it is, then there value proposition is non-existent, apart from being able to organise some tradies, building insurance and having a plan I like.

They may (and probably do) receive volume contracts with some of their suppliers, but more likely than not they're not passed on, their choice.
As was said previously, they are running a business, and will trade as such.
What they do is well within their rights as a business owner, whether people choose to pay their prices or not is totally up to them.
If you are willing to be an owner builder (and the bank will loan you the money ) go right ahead, pick your tradesmen, be onsite to check their work every day, know the trades well enough to be able to pick stuff ups, chase your supplies and suppliers....etc
All this costs time....and time is money

Thats why we paid a builder

So it appears, what would be a standard markup on a cat1 item being 50% its acceptable for a builder to change that markup to 65% on a cat6 change? Price change I accept, markup I dont. Its double dipping.

Thats acceptable? Its like walking into holden and saying I want that commodore, in white its $25k in black its $30k, there is very little logic to that.

Hi Humble,

If I may jump in here. At the end of the day you have two choices. To build through a volume builder or to go it alone. If you decide on the former, then as frustrating as it is, you need to accept their pricing policy. All volume builders operate in a very similar way.

Volume Builders want to build homes (i) as quickly as possible, (ii) as cheaply as possible so as to make the best return and (iii) as simply as possible. If your particular build affects any one of these points, then get ready to pay a premium. At the end of the day they are operating a business and although it has probably frustrated to some degree every single person who has signed a contract this is unfortunately how it is.

As others have already posted, try not to focus on individual costs as you will get very annoyed very quickly. If you want to add to this frustration, may I suggest you read the section in your HIA contract about costs incurred as a result of PCV's. Its very clear that builders (whoever you choose) make a lot of money from customers who change their mind post-contract signing!! How do you avoid this? Don't make any changes… Obvious I know.

Instead try to focus on a rough overall figure for the build. There is enough info on here to help you cost up the majority of your home.

Good Luck…

I agree with your point. I was screaming for about 2 months on brick prices. In the end you get the builder to do the structual work which can't be done post handover, pay the price for the bricks you like then do the other stuff post hand over.

Example PD charge $104 per downlight, I get get it installed for $50.

PD will build you a house at a good price. Do the rest post handover or pay the $$ if you wanted it all completed at once.

At the end of the day, i would expect everything to be priced Cost * Margin = Customer Price

If that basic math is processed every time then I have no problem, but what it appears everyone is saying is that its acceptable for it to be Cost * Variable Margin Dependent on Cat Type = Customer Price

Bizarre

what we are trying to say is that the final price is still cheap.

This is great advice. I'm doing the same. Only works if you're building single-storey thou

Another item which is a lot cheaper post-handover is Rendering. PD change a high premium for this especially if you choose more than one colour.....

Oh.... and the same can be said for additional internal colours (ie for feature walls). Much cheaper to buy the necessary paint from Bunnings and do it afterwards.....