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Hi everyone! I’m a long time stalker of homeone - there’s a wealth of experience on here!
We’re in the planning stages of our second build (first custom one - woohoo!
) in Newcastle, NSW and I know its jumping the gun but I’ve been doing some reading (and looking – I’ve fritted away many an hour on the houzz website!) at all the beautiful ways to finish concrete floors. I know onc_artisan is a bit of a resident expert, so if he or anybody has any experience / industry knowledge / insight into concrete floors to share, I’d love to hear it!
I’ve got HEAPS of questions, so I’ll try not to overwhelm everyone in one go:
1. I’m hearing lots of different m2 prices mentioned (from $20/m2 to $150+) ? What do they include that changes the price (not supply of the concrete I’m assuming?), and what makes a difference – level of grinding? Finished applied to the top? Aggregates? Colours? … something else?? What’s ‘normal’ to pay for polished concrete?
2. People talk about honed concrete, burnished concrete, and german concrete floors ( I tried googling german concrete floors and just got information about concrete floors in german!!) – are these the same things??, and, what is the difference between them and ‘real’ polished concrete? And what else changes – price? Texture and finish? Durability? Water-resistance? Stain-resistance?
3. It seems like every person applies a different finish– some waxed, some water-based coatings or polyurethane-based coatings (sealers??) and some with no finish applied on top at all – what is the difference? And are some finishes more prone to being dusty or need recoating more often or more water-repellent…? Or is it just to achieve greater depth of colour or different shine levels?? And with an uncoated finish, or even a waxed one, how on earth do you clean it?? And does uncoated polished (or honed / burnished / etc) concrete stain easily?
4.The finished look - Some photos I’ve seen of polished concrete have aggregate showing everywhere and others that are just delicately mottled – is this produced by sprinkling aggregates on the top of the wet concrete? Or do you mix them all through and then grind down further till you hit the pretty rocks…? I actually like them both, but I cant work out how the same process can achieve both looks – unless maybe the mottled one is concrete with no aggregate in it?? But doesn’t all concrete need aggregates (structurally)??
5. Can a waffle pod slab be polished? (I know our builder and our engineer definitely prefer waffle pod) How much do you cut off the top? And does the slab have to be poured slightly thicker to compensate for the bit that’s ground off? Can it be done on any soil type (ours is highly reactive, so I know that needs a particular grade of slab that suitable for H class soils)…?
6. Is it possible to DIY and get a nice finish? We’re not at all afraid of hard work, ( we successfully did a lot on our last house by ourselves), and everyone says the cost of polished concrete is largely because it’s so labour intensive – but has anyone on homeone tried it? I love putting in some elbow grease and getting a great result with less stress on the budget, but I am also a firm believer that there are some jobs that are best left to the professionals! So has anyone here given it a go?
7. And lastly – does anyone out there have polished (or honed / burnished / etc) concrete at home? Are you happy with how it looks and the wear-and-tear and cleaning? Does it stain easily? Do you have to recoat it often? Do they get very hot if they’re dark-coloured and getting summer sun on them? (we’ve tried very hard to be solar passive, but our block presents some challenges, so we will have a couple of western windows!
)
Thanks in advance for your help
- looking forward to reading the answers!
Amy
also - forgot to ask:
Is the stuff that looks like polished concrete in commercial buildings usually polished or burnished or something else (just sealed??). I was in a big new hardware store in my local area the other day and i noticed that smooth concrete floor - except theirs had big blotchy patches that were darker / lighter than the rest. Its more like a warehouse, so i dont think they were bothered, but in a home it might look very patchy! Is this normal??
HI Minnie , be sure you get what you pay for , Polsihed concrete is that polished concrete done over as many as 6 passes with a grinder using special metal bond and resin bond pads .This is usually in the higher price bracket and is truely polished floor , if your beiong quoted $ 20 a meters its a quick grind and seal , you will seal all the cuts and scratches in the floor unlike polishing which removes the scratches with each pass . big price difference but polished is far superior looking and easily maintanable . As for your hardware floor, these are typically treated with a product called sodium silicate after the slab has been placed and burnished hard with ride on helicoptors
this is what gives it the sheen , the patches you see is the result of over application and failed removal of the Sodium silicate, not a system you want unless you concrete placer and contractor work together and do it properly
Thanks getnewlookjason that's really interesting. Sounds like there are lots of grades and finishes that people call polished concrete. What about burnished/honed concrete? Where does it fall on that scale? Or is it like the concrete on the store's floor where it's been finished in a completely different way?
Wow lots of questions where to start lol. Yes Oncartisan is the guru here and was the source of much info and encouragement for us when we did ours.
First off the idea that twenty bucks will get you something close to what polished concrete is,,,in the inimitable words of Mr Kerrigan,,, you must be dreamin. There are quite a few competing methods out there now, and a few snake oil salesmen as well.
As a floor finish/covering anyway you look at it polished concrete is expensive, especcially the way we did it. Our builder had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the idea, and we were left pretty much to our own devices when it came to organising everything. We were fortunate to find pretty much the best in the business in Melbourne, a company that looks after the supply, installation and finishing of the stuff. Our whole polished concrete story is sprinkled through our build thread, have a look there for what we did.
Right let me have a crack (don’t mention 'crack' around a concreter) at some of your questions.
1. We paid north of 200 psm for the supply and finish of a 100mm overlay on our existing slab. The structural slab was laid 100mm down from the finished floor height and we have a mix of polished concrete, tile and floorboards throughout our extension. Why? because we wanted a white floor and the cost of materials for the whole slab would have been prohibitive.
2. Our floor is honed groud polished, not laqured or coated. Essentially its like sanding, rough smoother then smoothest. During the process they soaked the floor to aid/speed up the closing/hardening process but essentially there is no coating on the surface of the concrete to wear off. We went for a semi gloss look, if we wanted a high gloss finish it would have taken one more grind. There are companies that provide a urethane product thats painted on, but they wear over time.
3. sort of covered this, in my opinion I would steer clear of floor coatings. They are not much cheaper either. Our floor is a little like Cesar stone, it will absorb some liquid, but bicarb soda will draw out anything you can throw at it. That said we had to leave a dollop of red wine on the floor for 3 days (yes and it was an experiment) before it needed the bicarb treatment.
4. Every concreter will tell you concrete is a natural product, how it comes up will be somewhat unknown. The control you have over it is fairly good though. Colour depends on how deep your pockets are...the lighter or whiter you go the dearer it gets. You can throw pretty much anything you like in it (not the cat) coloured rock, glass, some metals again it depends on your bank balance. The exposure of the aggregate depends on how deep you grind it, but be warned if you want a salt and pepper look (lighter cut) the finish can be quite random or mottled. You might get some large patches of no exposure at all. Remember the floor is going to be dead flat so you cant grind a bit harder here and there to make that look happen evenly every time .
5. Dunno but i think onc has done one, they only take around 5mm off the top not including the rough surface.
6. i'm not sure where you would hire the equipment, that’s where a lot of the cost is. There is also a bit of craft to the job, I would hate to lose control of the grinder and cut too deep, cause once its gone its gone. Imagine having to relay the whole slab again to fix one little patch.
7. Absolutely love it. Surprisingly comfortable underfoot, as in not as hard feeling as I was expecting. Hides the dirt exceptionally well, even though we have a lighter colour. As for cleaning, soooooo easy, no grout lines, or gaps like in floor boards. We have heating in ours and with the 350mm+ of concrete beneath our feet it acts as a thermal bank in winter. In summer, yes we have a problem with east windows in the morning, so we screen the direct sunlight. But the mass in the floor really stabilizes the temperature very well, in summer the floor always felt cool underfoot.
If i think of anything more to add i'll add later..right now its movie night time here.
Hi Minnie ,
Burnished / honed concrete depends on who is doing the jobs , Typically as i said i Bunnings or Masters floors is what us in the concrete industry class as a Burnished slab finish , Basically that ride around on motorized helicopters machines and the Burnish the concrete slab hard with their metal blades creating that type of finish which is common practice on that type of heavy duty floor . You can achieve the same look with your home but you need to tell your concrete placer you want than finish and he will have to Pan it , which is just another term . You then should get it treated with a densifier which will harden the floor and then you will need to put a stain resist product on there . I would stay away from sealers as they often need maintenance .
The downside of doin a slab which such a burnished/ panned finish is that you wont be able to lay other systems on top unless you profile the floor ( grinding ) if you intend to lay tiles or anything that require glue adhesion you will need to do this .
What the burnished surface does is it takes away the porosity ( absorbancy ) of the floor because it has been worked so hard so your glues cannot effectivey soak into the floor . If you go into a Bunnings or Ikea store you will see the only finish is infact the plain concrete floor
Have been in the industry almost 20 years dealing with toppings , coatings , polishing , moisture control , waterproofing so any questions please dont hesitate to ask in open forum as im not here to promote anyone or any product
Wow, thanks for all the fantastic info guys! Sounds like there is an amazing array of options!
Jason, how do you normally protect the areas that aren't being burnished (or polished) so that they're protected from the polishing process and glue-ready for tiled areas (like a bathroom or laundry for example)? or do you just do the whole lot and then those parts of surface have to be treated afterwards to make the tiles adhere?
And is burnishing a less expensive process than real polishing?? Is it difficult to get a good effect (and that’s why you end up with a patchy finish?)
sceen7 - it’s great to hear from someone who actually lives with polished concrete! Your flooring choices sound absolutely beautiful!
The lacquered finished does sound concerning - i dont like the idea of having a coating wear off and needing re-finishing every few years (or more!). But then i guess its not terribly different to a timber floor in that respect.
Was it difficult (espeically given your builders reluctance) to keep the slab clean enough with all the tradies working on & around it, or did any spills & marks etc just get ground out when they polish it??
And is have you found that your polished concrete quite durable? (furniture, kids etc) or is it prone to chips or scratches???
Minnie , a treated panned burnished floor that has a stain resist can be done for as little as half or more than a traditional polished floor. the areas you are going to tile will need to be ground after and waterproofed then tiled
Polished or burnished floors dont chip however they may slightly scratch , the secret is to use a LOW ph cleaner on the surface everytime you mop your floors , if you use a high PH cleaner like normal stuff you will dull it very quick , concrete doesnt like high PH . Anything else glad to help
Was it difficult (espeically given your builders reluctance) to keep the slab clean enough with all the tradies working on & around it, or did any spills & marks etc just get ground out when they polish it??
Even though our builder was reluctant at first they did help out with protecting it. They supplied heavy plastic and old carpet to put down once the concrete was laid. The two mortal enemies of polished concrete (before it’s polished) are impact and liquids ie paint etc. The company that laid the floor prefer to put down carpet underlay as well as the old carpet because they are more concerned about a chunk being taken out of the floor. They take almost 10 mm off the top of the concrete during the process so scratches etc are no problem but as i said liquids are a worry because the unpolished floor is very porous.
As a surface to live with......we love it, especially now in winter as it’s heated. It’s very easy to keep clean AND hides the dirt really well, even though it’s white. I wouldn’t like to drop a hammer on it, but what floor would, ours is a matt finish and as such is a tiny bit less slippery when wet.
If your budget can do with the stretch....go for it...you won’t regret it.
It sounds fantastic sceen7! Heated floor - i bet you're enjoying that decision in melbourne at this time of year! Even in the hunter I'm wishing it had it at the moment! Yes I agree about dropping a hammer on it, i cant imagine that tiles or timber would withstand that kind of abuse either!
Its great to hear from someone with the finished product - Now we just have to see how much is left in the finished budget!! Thanks for all your help!
Reviving thread.
We're at stage of deciding on concrete floor finish.
I can't quite determine exact differences between polished and burnished even from reading the responses. Is there a good point summary of the differences in terms of cost, appearance, durabiliy, maintenance?
Thanks in advance.
Polished concrete exposes the stone making it attractive and reflective and at the High end of the price scale . Burnished concrete ( Bunnings floor ) has not been polished exposing the stone however it should be treated the same making it reflective ... Medium scale of pricing depending on current state of concrete ..
www.nanoset.com.au
Cheers, It's a new pour, slab for new contruction to be poured in a few weeks time.
Are you all sorted animal?
Still not really sure what we'll do.
Builder has given us 4 options plus a tint.
Salt& pepper
Hit& miss
Full grind
Burnished.
We were thinking charcoal tint.
We don't like hit& miss because of the inconsistent appearance. We maybe like full grind with only dark aggregate.
We've seen some nice pictures on nanoset site, some look like they may be burnished but we worry they look great new but will not look so great after some wear!
Hi Guys,
Had a question similar to the questions asked above.
If using a standard Hanson or BGC slab can the below look be achieved by polishing? Or does the slab need to be upgraded to a higher aggregate mix (the colours aren't so much what needs to be matched only the level of aggregate).
http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q731/sazzy911/Polished1_zps837e88ff.jpgThanks,
Sarah
I'm no expert, but we have had our slab done now. We went for a medium grind. Be warned - the pictures you see in magazines advertising polished concrete may not be anything like what you get. I've found they take pictures of the very best sections. The end result may not be uniform like it appears in pictures.
There are so many variables. If you want something particularly uniform in appearance I would suggest going from start to finish with the one company that specialises in selecting, pouring and finishing.
We are happy with ours, but when we first saw it we were surprised to see the number of small cracks in the concrete in some sections (at the time they were exaggerated by plaster dust though), but not others and the aggregate does not always sit uniformly close to the surface.
Ours does not have a uniform appearance, and we like it like that.
As I said, if you want something specific I'd consult a professional who does it as their daily trade.
Hi animal,
Can you post some pics or a post to your build thread.
Thanks
Polished concrete mixes are designed for the purpose more aggregate and the same sized aggregate.
Also be warned if they want to use a resin sealer don't you will be resealing every two years.
Cracks should be filled with grout if not injected with resin and should not be overly noticeable.
Patchy aggregate is normally in the shape of foot prints from the placement or screed marks from screeding the concrete.