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I would if I were u!!!!!!
There is a huge difference in the quality of the cabinets between what I build and the average kitchen shop (Kitchen conection, Impala, Ikea, Harvey Norman)
There are different quality melamines. Some that absorb water like a spong and some that take alot longer. We use a higher quality board!
There are different ways to make cabinets. Some companys use knock down fittings and 4mm backs stappled on. We use 16mm backs and glue, nail and screw everything! We offer cabients built to the 1mm. Most companys offer cabinets in 100mm increments.
Some companys use cheap and nasty plastic legs to support the cabinets and stone tops. These compress and move. The false kick front also shows gaps and swells at the site of water. We use solid ladder construction kicks made from plywood that never has any problems with water and supports the weight properly.
There is some really nasty paint(polyurethane) jobs out there. The paint is to thin and to hard. It wears and chips easily!
Materials were alot cheaper in your mothers day. A kitchen built thatway would cost a bomb and no one would want to pay for it.
If you want to talk quality then those cabinets of your mums didnt have any backs, the drawers didnt have runners or softclose and the doors were swung on nasty external or butt hinges. The quality of the hardware today is far far better than what was available.
I would if I were u!!!!!!
There is a huge difference in the quality of the cabinets between what I build and the average kitchen shop (Kitchen conection, Impala, Ikea, Harvey Norman)
There are different quality melamines. Some that absorb water like a spong and some that take alot longer. We use a higher quality board!
There are different ways to make cabinets. Some companys use knock down fittings and 4mm backs stappled on. We use 16mm backs and glue, nail and screw everything! We offer cabients built to the 1mm. Most companys offer cabinets in 100mm increments.
Some companys use cheap and nasty plastic legs to support the cabinets and stone tops. These compress and move. The false kick front also shows gaps and swells at the site of water. We use solid ladder construction kicks made from plywood that never has any problems with water and supports the weight properly.
There is some really nasty paint(polyurethane) jobs out there. The paint is to thin and to hard. It wears and chips easily!
Materials were alot cheaper in your mothers day. A kitchen built thatway would cost a bomb and no one would want to pay for it.
If you want to talk quality then those cabinets of your mums didnt have any backs, the drawers didnt have runners or softclose and the doors were swung on nasty external or butt hinges. The quality of the hardware today is far far better than what was available.
I agree they didn't have the fittings like today, and soft close and pot drawers etc are a wonderful advancement
I'm sure there is better quality chipboard around but we all have our own opinions on what we perceive as quality or craftsmanship
It's not personal - it's just my own thoughts
There is also a massive hygiene improvement on a melamine internal carcase over timber, I personally cant stand timber insides , yukki cockroach hotels, and yet the Americans still seem to love it.
Also there is a 'green' factor, why would you use good wood where it's not seen?
Block board with a melamine face might be the go but lots more $$$
Those old kitchens were built to last though after stripping out many, I'm a recipro man now! Slice it out in manageable sections! Lol
There is also a massive hygiene improvement on a melamine internal carcase over timber, I personally cant stand timber insides , yukki cockroach hotels, and yet the Americans still seem to love it.
Also there is a 'green' factor, why would you use good wood where it's not seen?
Block board with a melamine face might be the go but lots more $$$
Those old kitchens were built to last though after stripping out many, I'm a recipro man now! Slice it out in manageable sections! Lol
I was talking about quality and craftsmanship rather than serviceability, we never had cochroaches but did have silverfish!
Being green is a whole other issue, would we really build the size of homes built today or even renovate older homes by ripping everything out rather than paint up or restore, as I said my mum's house has stayed the same for nearly 60 years, not replace every 10-15 years like now, I think that's sort of green - it's a compromise on what we want and what we need and what we are willing to pay for.
I don't see chipboard as quality but it is servicable
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I don't see chipboard as quality but it is servicable
I agree but it can be used to build different quality cabinets!!!
Alot of people just dont get the difference but they start to see it 2-3 years after the kitchen is installed.
They start to have all sorts of problems and you can tell just by looking at it that a shonk has made it.
Where as in 15years time my kitchens are still going strong. Nothing has swelled, nothing has fallen off and the hardware is still working!
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I don't see chipboard as quality but it is servicable
I agree but it can be used to build different quality cabinets!!!
Alot of people just dont get the difference but they start to see it 2-3 years after the kitchen is installed.
They start to have all sorts of problems and you can tell just by looking at it that a shonk has made it.
Where as in 15years time my kitchens are still going strong. Nothing has swelled, nothing has fallen off and the hardware is still working!
Needs to be more people like you that care to make the best they can - more power to you
Showing my age again but I can't see the words chipboard, ply, quality and cabinetmakers all in the same sentence equalling quality.
My mother's house from the 50's had solid hardwood throughout all cupboards, rock solid and nearly 60 years on still looked fab
Even the laminex she had put on in the 60s had no chips and few scratches - they just don't make them like they used to
In my house we put in a chipboard kitchen and I see it as it is cheap and replaceable.
I think quality and cost is from bench tops and appliances now, not the 'cabinetry'
(runs and hides)
There is no need to use hardwood throughout all the cupboards now days. They did it then because it's all they had. Why don't people use hardwood to build house frames any more? not cost effective, harder to work with and not needed.
Chipboard is perfectly fine for holding up cups and plates in your cupboard.
There is no need to use hardwood throughout all the cupboards now days. They did it then because it's all they had. Why don't people use hardwood to build house frames any more? not cost effective, harder to work with and not needed.
Chipboard is perfectly fine for holding up cups and plates in your cupboard.
I'm sure pine was available back then I recall it thought of as being 'cheap' it may be different today
The original verandah supports on my house are in perfect condition yet the extension part of the house (pine) are rotting
All our skirtings and archs are hardwood, no dents or damage
To each their own I like the older harder wood, I know it's harder to work with, like stone, but it seems to last and I like that
Good points, but I fail to see the craftsmanship in hardwood internals? All they would be is strips of wood glued together ( grain orientated if your lucky) into a panel, hmr is better suited to the purpose and more stable, if not subject to too much water, IMHO the quality part that makes the difference is the doors/panels and hardware (and of course all that's been said about quality of board, edging etc.)
Internal first fix and so forth, I totally agree with you, but it also depends what 'look' the customer wants.
When I was an apprentice in Scotland, all the rage at the time was 'mahogany and brass'
Out of Polytec, Polyrey, Laminex & Formica - which would you choose? Which one has better quality?
Out of Polytec, Polyrey, Laminex & Formica - which would you choose? Which one has better quality?
I said this in the CaesarStone thread, Holden or Ford? Apples or Oranges?
When you're considering one manufacturer over another, knowing which questions to ask is absolutely critical. I'm sure having read some of the posts, especially from grinder and Strumer, you are now pretty well equipped to ask the important questions.
The only other thing I might mention is that when you're considering the way cabinets are put together, look for manufacturers that offer Mortice & Tenon joins as a construction method. That way, if you buy the cabinets fully assembled, they will be significantly more solid, more likely to remain "square" following installation and generally offer better longevity.
Even if you buy cabinets as a flat pack, mortice & tenon makes assembly much, much easier and quicker. Not a lot of manufacturers offer this type of construction, but some do and so it's worth asking.
The other very important consideration, as has been pointed out by others, is the type and quality of carcass material. You absolutely want it to be HMR Particle Board and frankly none of the imported board that I have seen is even close to what we produce here in Australia. A great deal of it is not moisture resistant and it is often not as dense and robust as the locally produced stuff.
look for manufacturers that offer Mortice & Tenon joins as a construction method. That way, if you buy the cabinets fully assembled, they will be significantly more solid, more likely to remain "square" following installation and generally offer better longevity.
Even if you buy cabinets as a flat pack, mortice & tenon makes assembly much, much easier and quicker. Not a lot of manufacturers offer this type of construction, but some do and so it's worth asking.
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Mortise and tenon joints in melamine cabinets?? Thats way way way over kill and a great way to add thousands to your kitchen.
You might find 1 in 10,000 kitchen companys that offer this.
The material used to build kitchen cabinets is not strong enough to form a proper mortise and tenon joint. It would be a total waste of time and money and wouldnt add any stength to the cabinet at all!!
How do you even make a mortise and tenon joint in a cabinet?
Housing joint or rebate, Yes (but as CEK points out, totally unnecessary) but a mortise & tenon is used in door and window joinery.
Quality materials, sound construction and attention to detail will give you a kitchen that will look good for many years to come, will function well and doesn't have to cost the earth.
[quote="chippy"]How do you even make a mortise and tenon joint in a cabinet?[quote]
My thoughts exactly. It would actually be very weak!!
To be fair to VladS I know of a few fabricators around here who now use the technique I think he is talking about.
Where two boards traditionally butt up against one another, this new machining method cuts a REBATE into the receiving board and a matching protrusion is machined to the board meeting it.
The rebate doesn't go all the way through the board, and I call it a "Hidden" Mortise and Tennon, although I'm pretty sure that isn't correct either.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u240/strumer/Untitled.jpgThis method of joining is very convenient from an assembling point of view as all the boards can be slotted together and hold themselves in place ready for screwing which obviated the need for nailing them together as is normally done in a workshop, and also definitely also helps to hold the boards square prior to screwing.
The slotted together assembly is surprisingly strong and an unscrewed cabinet can be literally kicked around the workshop without coming apart.
It takes an extra couple of passes with the nesting router per board but the guys who doing it seem happy with it.
Whether this method of construction actually adds to the strength of the final cabinet I couldn't say, however if assembled correctly the conventional method is more than strong enough already.
Cheers,
Earl
Yep have heard of that Earl, but it doesnt help with a normal kitchen cabinet.
It would help slightly with a fixed shelf but,
Take the join between the end and bottom of the cabinet. The joint in your picture wouldnt add any strength at all to the cabinet. Particle boards as you know is very weak at its edges.
Vlads statement "they will be significantly more solid, more likely to remain "square" following installation and generally offer better longevity" is totally off the mark with kitchen cabinets. Those joints wont offer any more strength or longevity at all!
We redid our kitchen a year ago. I searched for non - melamine cupboards and didn't find them. Recently we replaced some windows and this guy told me that they are doing timber kitchens the old fasioned way. I only asked why he does not advertise that - we would have done that. While melamine falls apart these old fashioned kitchens are still good when you are gone.
In short I would ask around maybe you find a joiner who does that.