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Hi firsthomwbuyer25
You have a class "p" due to the depth of clay fill on site.
Your house was built during a drought which was the second halve of 2015 followed by a mini wet period.The soil around that estate has highly reactive soil.You are very close to several old volcanoes.The fill used in your area is from highly reactive clay and going by your logs shows it was on the dry side.If the builder didn't use temporary downpipes and grade the soil away from the footings then you have all the factors that can lead to slab heave.
Eynesbury and the Melton area have had their fair share of slab heave
Highly reactive fill can swell more that similarly reactive soil in its natural state.
Once it has happened what to do about it is a difficult question.
I’m starting to think that there were some issues around the construction phase. Here’s some photos that I’ve got. There is a fair bit of spill from the slab being poured.
The cladding on and no stormwater system was even installed as you can see it under the back deck and the spouting ran straight to alongside the slab (house was built in wet period) soil was not graded away.
I’m not even sure they scraped the block from the start
The downpipes are not connected in the middle photo and I can't see any stormwater entry pipes sticking out of the ground.
Was there an issue with the plumbing after the initial plumbing was installed pre slab?What are all the pvc pipes doing there under the pergola?
The builder has not graded the soil away from the house which they are required to do in AS2870.
Did you take any photos during the construction's 'wet period' that show the poor drainage and no temporary downpipes etc?
I did but our house was broken into and our old iPad (that wasn’t backed up) was stolen. It had majority of our photos. Ironic thing was they broke in through a back door we couldn’t lock properly because of the heave and we’d been asking the builder to look at for 6 months. Day after our wedding too.... I do have some photos around the house which shows none of the spouting connected or stormwater system even installed not when it’s saturated though. Going through my pics tho and looking at previous weather i can show they haven’t taken care during construction
Hi firsthomwbuyer25
You have a class "p" due to the depth of clay fill on site.
Your house was built during a drought which was the second halve of 2015 followed by a mini wet period.The soil around that estate has highly reactive soil.You are very close to several old volcanoes.The fill used in your area is from highly reactive clay and going by your logs shows it was on the dry side.If the builder didn't use temporary downpipes and grade the soil away from the footings then you have all the factors that can lead to slab heave.
Eynesbury and the Melton area have had their fair share of slab heave
Highly reactive fill can swell more that similarly reactive soil in its natural state.
Once it has happened what to do about it is a difficult question.
I’m starting to think that there were some issues around the construction phase. Here’s some photos that I’ve got. There is a fair bit of spill from the slab being poured.
The cladding on and no stormwater system was even installed as you can see it under the back deck and the spouting ran straight to alongside the slab (house was built in wet period) soil was not graded away.
I’m not even sure they scraped the block from the start
The downpipes are not connected in the middle photo and I can't see any stormwater entry pipes sticking out of the ground.
Was there an issue with the plumbing after the initial plumbing was installed pre slab?What are all the pvc pipes doing there under the pergola?
The builder has not graded the soil away from the house which they are required to do in AS2870.
Yep weren’t even installed or connected, not that I know of. I don’t know why the pipes are there but I assume they should of already been in the ground. The soil was not graded away up until we moved in and did it ourselves
The downpipes are not connected in the middle photo and I can't see any stormwater entry pipes sticking out of the ground.
I should have enlarged the photo, I had assumed the downpipes were connected in the middle photo, didn't even consider the possibility that they weren't connected.
I did but our house was broken into and our old iPad (that wasn’t backed up) was stolen. It had majority of our photos. Ironic thing was they broke in through a back door we couldn’t lock properly because of the heave and we’d been asking the builder to look at for 6 months. Day after our wedding too....
I am really sorry to hear that. Just terrible. You need to stay strong.
What drainage have you got? Aggi drains? Surface spoon drains, strip drains?
What drainage have you got? Aggi drains? Surface spoon drains, strip drains?
Spoon drains down one side and slopes concrete on the other side
What drainage have you got? Aggi drains? Surface spoon drains, strip drains?
Spoon drains down one side and slopes concrete on the other side
What’s at the end of the concrete? Just soil or is it pooped against the fence or strip drains?
Did they do any agricultural drains? It is mandatory under AS2870 for H class soil I believe.
I did but our house was broken into and our old iPad (that wasn’t backed up) was stolen. It had majority of our photos. Ironic thing was they broke in through a back door we couldn’t lock properly because of the heave and we’d been asking the builder to look at for 6 months. Day after our wedding too....
I am really sorry to hear that. Just terrible. You need to stay strong.
[img]https://forum.homeone.com.au/u/38282_1533115835.jpg[/img
Thanks we’re going through the roller coaster of emotions, and feel like we’re getting no where. But we’ll be OK, after hearing about people’s experience at VCAT even with definitive evidence it sounds like its too expensive and risky. Even if we have enough evidence we’re thinking we should bare the cost ourselves and pay to fix it and then sell it. Had so many people in that can’t find a cause, lead us in the right direction or tell us if we have a case. Certainly noticed there isn’t much empathy apart from you kind words.
What drainage have you got? Aggi drains? Surface spoon drains, strip drains?
Spoon drains down one side and sloped concrete on the other side
What’s at the end of the concrete? Just soil or is it pooped against the fence or strip drains?
Did they do any agricultural drains? It is mandatory under AS2870 for H class soil I believe.
The photos I’ve posted earlier is how they left it on handover. We arranged for the concrete to be done whitch is 1.2m wide and graded away from the house. The builder didn’t do any drainage works what so ever. The concrete landing he did do away from our single door rear entry to the garage slopes into the garage..
Extract from AS2870:
5.6.3 Drainage requirements
Buildings on moderately, highly or extremely reactive sites shall be provided with drainage systems designed in accordance with the following:
(a) Surface drainage shall be considered in the design of the footing system and necessary modification shall be included in the design documentation. Surface drainage of the site shall be controlled from the start of site preparation and construction. The drainage system shall be completed by the finish of construction of the building.Doesn't look to me like they've done that...
Extract from AS2870:
5.6.3 Drainage requirements
Buildings on moderately, highly or extremely reactive sites shall be provided with drainage systems designed in accordance with the following:
(a) Surface drainage shall be considered in the design of the footing system and necessary modification shall be included in the design documentation. Surface drainage of the site shall be controlled from the start of site preparation and construction. The drainage system shall be completed by the finish of construction of the building.
Doesn't look to me like they've done that...
I think I need to sit down with someone and tell/show them everything we’ve got to assess whether we have a case. The structural engineer we’ve hired doesn’t want to listen or hear anything he just wanted to investigate possible leaks and we’ve spent thousands on plumbing investigations and haven’t found anything when in fact the care taken during construction may be the cause. Not sure who to speak to besides a lawyer. It would be nice if I could find someone who will listen to what i have to say from start to finish to see if anything is relevant and then tell me what we need to do etc
[quote="kirashogun"]What drainage have you got? Aggi drains? Surface spoon drains, strip drains?
Spoon drains down one side and sloped concrete on the other side
What’s at the end of the concrete? Just soil or is it pooped against the fence or strip drains?
Did they do any agricultural drains? It is mandatory under AS2870 for H class soil I believe.
The photos I’ve posted earlier is how they left it on handover. We arranged for the concrete to be done whitch is 1.2m wide and graded away from the house. The builder didn’t do any drainage works what so ever. The concrete landing he did do away from our single door rear entry to the garage slopes into the garage..[/quote]
So no subsurface drains either? Check your drawings for aggi drains.
You have zero storm water drains on your site? If that’s true that’s just straight out non complaint.
I think I need to sit down with someone and tell/show them everything we’ve got to assess whether we have a case. The structural engineer we’ve hired doesn’t want to listen or hear anything he just wanted to investigate possible leaks and we’ve spent thousands on plumbing investigations and haven’t found anything when in fact the care taken during construction may be the cause. Not sure who to speak to besides a lawyer. It would be nice if I could find someone who will listen to what i have to say from start to finish to see if anything is relevant and then tell me what we need to do etc
I don't want to be seen as defending the structural engineers behaviour but I doubt anyone provided " The smoking Gun (evidence).." in the way of photos, data, details, etc to do the calculations/simulations, that support the events. Nor am I blaming you as you are not an expert, the problem is with your Building Surveyors & Inspectors, Certification & regulatory authority, it sucks or blows (it can't be both .. ) BTW .. Social media and forums have shown how widespread this problem is. If you would like someone to listen and then debate it on your behalf in court hire a lawyer at $500/hr, the court expert in building are engineers as they provide the Science, Math, Data and Proofs.
OT...Be prepared for possible events ,take better photos, collect info & hire an engineer directly.
Apologies for the short points and not engaging in debate
"There is math, and everything else is debatable" Chris Rock
"
The photos I’ve posted earlier is how they left it on handover. The builder didn’t do any drainage works what so ever.
Are you saying that the roof drainage was not connected to the stormwater on handover? If so, that is extraordinary!!! It really takes incompetence to a whole new level. Have you contacted the (overpaid toothless tigers) VBA? Put everything in writing.
The structural engineer we’ve hired doesn’t want to listen or hear anything he just wanted to investigate possible leaks and we’ve spent thousands on plumbing investigations and haven’t found anything when in fact the care taken during construction may be the cause.
You really needed to hire a geotechnical engineer who works with a structural engineer plus you really don't know if the engineer you hired has a connection with either the builder or the engineer who designed the slab. This is why the VBA should be the (independent) investigator but they repeatedly fails to do this. The VBA was set up under Matthew Guy's watch as a toothless tiger, they have been given more 'bite' of late but they are in dire need of a new set of fangs.
Houses have some settling but hydraulic heave is very powerful, many, many times more pressure that the pressure exerted by the weight of the house. Water draining from the roof area servicing each downpipe magnifies many times over the amount of water falling on small areas next to the slab.
Of interest, if you post the roof area, the slope and the gutter make and style (it will probably be standard 115mm slotted quad), I can give you a guide as to whether the roof drainage is compliant. To do it accurately, I would need to know the gutter's high point locations to determine each roof area drained to each downpoipe but the basics will give me a strong indication of adherence to compliance or otherwise.
Metropolis Solutions do forensic plumbing testing but the cause of heave is sure to be excessive subsoil movement. Have you checked to see if there is a class action underway against your builder?
The builder doesn't want, nor pay for, additional engineering services, less chance of being caught out,I guess?
I can't say how many times. I've been told to to ignore other details on site. Most engineers are stuck between a rock and a hard place..damned if you do, damned if you don't, as for me I don't give a sh!t... there will be a day of reckoning with data and proofs
Extract from AS2870:
5.6.3 Drainage requirements
Buildings on moderately, highly or extremely reactive sites shall be provided with drainage systems designed in accordance with the following:
(a) Surface drainage shall be considered in the design of the footing system and necessary modification shall be included in the design documentation. Surface drainage of the site shall be controlled from the start of site preparation and construction. The drainage system shall be completed by the finish of construction of the building.
Doesn't look to me like they've done that...
Nope they haven’t
Nothing only a strip drain in front of our garage as the slopes our driveway into it. Stormwater system was installwe well after it should of beeen
The photos I’ve posted earlier is how they left it on handover. The builder didn’t do any drainage works what so ever.
Are you saying that the roof drainage was not connected to the stormwater on handover? If so, that is extraordinary!!! It really takes incompetence to a whole new level. Have you contacted the (overpaid toothless tigers) VBA? Put everything in writing.
The structural engineer we’ve hired doesn’t want to listen or hear anything he just wanted to investigate possible leaks and we’ve spent thousands on plumbing investigations and haven’t found anything when in fact the care taken during construction may be the cause.
You really needed to hire a geotechnical engineer who works with a structural engineer plus you really don't know if the engineer you hired has a connection with either the builder or the engineer who designed the slab. This is why the VBA should be the (independent) investigator but they repeatedly fails to do this. The VBA was set up under Matthew Guy's watch as a toothless tiger, they have been given more 'bite' of late but they are in dire need of a new set of fangs.
Houses have some settling but hydraulic heave is very powerful, many, many times more pressure that the pressure exerted by the weight of the house. Water draining from the roof area servicing each downpipe magnifies many times over the amount of water falling on small areas next to the slab.
Of interest, if you post the roof area, the slope and the gutter make and style (it will probably be standard 115mm slotted quad), I can give you a guide as to whether the roof drainage is compliant. To do it accurately, I would need to know the gutter's high point locations to determine each roof area drained to each downpoipe but the basics will give me a strong indication of adherence to compliance or otherwise.
Metropolis Solutions do forensic plumbing testing but the cause of heave is sure to be excessive subsoil movement. Have you checked to see if there is a class action underway against your builder?
Went to the vba with the findings of slab heave, the builder disagreed that we even had it which is grounds for the vba to do a site inspection to determine if it’s defective or not the dbdrv as they’re now known did nothing, said they couldn’t help and closed our case I made a complaint and still waiting on a response. I can find out the roof details. Builder is a private builder not that I’m aware of
The VBA cannot ignore an expert report.
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