Hi all,

Before we start building and going to electrical pre-start, we want to know what do we need to ask a builder to put in.
I know that to avoid paying top dollar for downlights some people suggesting to put in one batton in the middle of the room and later replace it with downlight. We were looking at getting around 100 downlights in the house, however at builders price it will be well over 30k just for downlights. I've spoken to couple of electricians and they told me that the cost for LED downlight will be about $150 including install oppose builders $300+.

The question is: what do I ask builder to do electrical wise for the house??
I understand that smart wiring and C-Bus are the big selling points that will cost arm and a leg and want to avoid paying for something that we don't need.
I understand that putting power/TV/data points are cheaper during construction than afterwards.

We're thinking about putting 1TV point in every room plus 3-4 power points. What are the "Data" points for?
At the moment we have wireless connections around the house: computer, Apple TVs, router, time capsule...
Do I need to install CAT6 cable to connect AppleTV, normal TVs and Time Capsule to cut down on running Wi-Fi and use ethernet instead?

What other points do I need to install for normal day to day use?

So, to summarise, here is the list of things we want:

1. Install downlights after handover, to cut down on cost and bulder's outrages cost
2. Have router and Time Capsule sitting in study and be able to distribute content to Apple TVs (via ethernet cable instead of WiFi)???
3. Have TV points in all bedrooms, Theather and Living Rooms
4. Connect TV's to internet via inbuilt ethernet port
5. Connect computer to router via Ethernet cable instead of WiFi to increase speed (not sure if it will make a difference)???
6. Install Security Alarm System
7. Our house is in NBN area, so not really sure how it will work, do we need extra equipment or will it run like current ADSL service??? (Computer -> Router -> Internet)


To keep above requirements in mind, what do we ask our builder to do/include?

Any feedback is appreciated.
Thanks

Hi I do not have all the answers to your questions. But I am curious, which builder are you building with? Because I am building with Carlisle homes and they charge us approx $100 for a downlight. I have heard other builders charging anywhere between $90 and $150 but I haven't heard anything like $300 per downlight?!

Hi we're building in WA, and $300 is the price for LED downlight not the standard halogen.

Hiya!

I have some suggestions, as my partner is a sparkie apprentice and once we move into our house, he has plans to do up all our networking/lights/electrical things.

He was the one who went through our electrical plan and planned where things would go.



I do recommend finding an electrician close to home who can install the majority of downlights for you at once, as they may be expensive to put in BUT then they won't have the builder's markup margin on the cost. $300 per downlight is ridiculous!

I recommend installing downlights after handover. In our theatre room, I would like (eventually) 5 downlights (one in the middle and one in each corner). So we are getting the smallest light fitting in the centre of the room so it can be replaced with a downlight later and then add the other 4 separately.

I do suggest that, when you go through your electrical plan, move the lights that come with the house to a spot where they can be replaced with a downlight later and also where they don't interfere with the other downlights you want in there.
Yes, always good to have TV points in the areas where TV's may be at some point.
A cable connection is stronger than a Wifi connection....we connect all of ours via cable to make it stronger, mainly cos our Wifi isn't always reliable.
I ALWAYS recommend a good security alarm system. Luckily wiring can be run through the roof and under the eaves or through a cavity wall. My partner will be setting up a video intercom for our front door
In regards to the NBN, just what you have is fine. As long as the line is run in from the cable to the house, which will be done when you have your internet and home phone set up, then NBN will come along later.

CONDUITS.
CONDUITS EVERYWHERE.
We kept all the basic points that came with the house, and moved the powerpoints in the 2, 3 and 4th bedroom to elsewhere in the house (e.g. one in the laundry WIL and the other two to the Theatre room). Mainly cos it is easier to install powerpoints on external walls that have an empty cavity than to go through the trouble/mess/repair of installing one on an inside single-brick wall.
We added 20mm conduits everywhere (10 altogether) to various places throughout the house for: network cables (for internet in every room), for phone lines (one to the Theatre and one to the Activity room), for other TV points (Activity and Lounge), etc. We also added conduits to existing switches for the bathrooms so we could remove the exhaust fan and install a heater/fan/light after we move in.

Hope that provides a little info for you...

-Ally

I should have clarified - we moved the powerpoints out of the other bedrooms to put on internal walls instead, but we ARE re-installing the powerpoints in those rooms later
Find yourself a sparkie friend, they're very handy to have

Good luck!
-Ally

Data points are for, well, exactly that - data. You can also use what's call "Power Over Ethernet" (PoE), that provides 48V with 1000BaseT/RJ45 - more on that later.

I still haven't got pricing for my own place, but $185 per points would not be a heart attack to have Krone connections on Cat 6 throughout. You'll pay less for Cat5e, which is specified to a lower standard.

You have four real options.
Option 1 - Lots of data points to everywhere in the house.
I'd love to have, in my house, two data points on each side of each room, and maybe four on the main wall I intend to use for the lounge. But that will be obscenely expensive at $185/point - you'd be looking at maybe 32 points (or more) throughout the house, including two in the roof for APs.
All of these go back to a central location, which might be a vented cupboard, or the garage, where you have a patch-panel. Every individual patch port from there goes in to a switch (or router).

Option 2 - Run a single point to every room.
Downside here is that when you decide you want to use multiple devices in that room, you're going to need a switch. Having a switch means requiring power for that switch, so that means a power outlet, and a small device sitting somewhere - you might consider this messy, and it can most definitely get that way.

Option 3 - Wireless
This is the cheap, convenient way. It's also the least reliable and secure way. The advantage is that you can have one (or more) Access Points located somewhere in the house, and not have to have cable runs everywhere.
The downside is that if there's a lot of other wireless devices nearby (eg, APs at neighbours houses, cordless phones, sometimes microwaves), you're fighting for time slots in that spectrum. The result is retransmits being required, which means slower data rates and packetloss.
Speeds are anything from 11mbps (b), 54mbps (g) to 150/300450/600/750/900mbps (n). The higher speed you try to go, the better quality the spectrum needs to be around your area.
If this is going to be your main method of access, I highly recommend you ditch those piddly little 2dB antenna (and domestric grade APs), and get a good quality Cisco or *Enterprise* Netgear/DLink AP, with a good quality amplifier and high-gain antenna. I run a DLink 3200AP (g) with a 50mW amp and 15dB omni directional antenna mounted to the roof.

Option 4 - Do nothing now, but get the conduits in place.
By doing this, ensure that the conduits are there *with a pull wire*. I can't stress the 'with a pull wire' enough.
This means that later on down the track, you can install whatever cabling you want - so in 2020 when we all move to fibre, it'll be easy


As for your standards;
Cat5e is cheaper, and is rated to 1000Base-T at 100 meters.
Cat6a is going to be far more expensive but permits 10Gbase-T at the same distance.

Consider what devices will use Ethernet. Computers. Set Top Boxes. Your PS3, XBox and Wii (wireless standard). Notebooks. Smart TVs. Phones. IP Cameras. Suddenly four points behind your TV isn't sounding so crazy, is it? Nor is an ethernet port on your kitchen bench (for your phone).

Lastly, when I mentioned PoE;
Access Points and VoIP handsets are the main devices that will make use of this, though it's not necessarily limited to these (IP camera are another that commonly use it).
For example, I'll be using Cisco 7945 handsets throughout the house - these include a three port-switch, so you can daisy chain a computer to it. A much more expensive than normal router then sits in the cabinet, which supplies up to about 90W power to PoE ports around the house - so instead of needing heaps of power bricks, they automatically draw power through that cable.
It *might* be something you want to consider - but if you're asking this question, I doubt it.

Thank you guys for your suggestions.

I have my electrical appointment soon and i just want a bit of info on how to make things cost effective.

I will be putting pull throughs and conduit throught the house but i don't know which is harder for sparkys to get to when we've moved in.

We're having sarking, ceiling batts, wall wrap sisalation and soundscreen batts(bit more dense/thick than standard batts) in the external cavities.

I cant imagine it being easy to reach the external cavity wall spaces to run cables without somehow damaging the sarking/wall wrap when they remove the roof tiles for access.

So i am thinking if i should move all my power points to the external walls and get a few more done by the builder and put conduit and pull throughs throughout the middle of the house?

Data points are points in the house where you can plug in a computer, or potentially a telephone if you have telephone lines running over the points.
You don't *need* cat 6, its better insulated, supports power over ethernet & faster speeds than cat 5e. So its a nice to have
Having data points mean's you don't need wireless for the device that will plug into that spot. Some devices such as iPhones will only use wireless.

(1) Have you got a quote for non-LED downlights? If the difference is huge you could replace them with LED's after handover.
(3) Sounds nice, each point costs money though....and you'll need to have a TV point wired to a central point that you then split into multiple TV points.
(4) Yes *or* wireless
(5) Wired is always faster, if your an average internet user you might not notice the speed difference.
(7) No difference as such, no special equipment required. Personally I'm planning to get a conduit with pull-wire installed so the NBN modem/router device can be installed into the central data cabinet that I will have.

I forgot to mention...shop around for a good data cabler. My price went from $250 to closer to <$80/point for cat 6.

Hi,

I wired my own CAT 6 Cable and Coax (TV) throughout the house. Bought a 305m roll on ebay for $90.
Checked with my SS first and he gave the all clear.

I would definately put in Cat6 and not 5e - technology is only getting better and faster - and 5e (or Wireless) will not cut it soon for HD streaming (Blue ray) etc.

Did it just after the framing stage so was easy to drill\feed through the walls... ended up with around 20 points in the end...
Costed me $90 and about 1.5 days of work.. save myself a heap of money.
As for LED DL - have organised a mate (sparky) to do after handover - 18 LEDs for $1200.

Definately need to check your after build options and what you can do yourself during the build.

Hope this helps

Very difficult/messy/destructive to install anything on internal walls once the house is done.
Sparkles can get to external wall cavities no problem, leave the specifics up to them.
I suggest moving everything necessary to internal walls and leaving the outside walls empty to install anything you want later, eg powerpoints, etc.

Hi,
We're getting LED downlights ( Phillips 7W 40 deg dimmable GU10 ) installed in our double storey house we're building at the moment ( We're in Sydney by the way ), like you, we need about 70. The Electrician that the builder is with quoted us $130 + GST . We thought that was a bit much so we researched on the net & found a retailer that sold them for $40 incl GST. The electrician is charging us $35 just to install, which all up is $75, a saving of about $60/piece!
The beauty of these lights is that not only are they energy efficient, but if anything happens to them you can just replace the whole thing yourself as they are individually wired, it's as easy as unplugging the light & replacing it, no hard wiring involved . The retailer that we got them from is a well known retailer in Sydney ( so these guys aren't faceless people on the net ) & I went & picked them up myself & are currently waiting for them to be installed.
So just to sum up:
1. Do your research & find out exactly what you want.
2. Discuss with your builder the option of providing the lights & fittings yourself & asking them for an installation price.
3. Get a trusted brand LED globe so that you get value for money
4. By doing this, you will save money that I'm sure you'll have other uses for.
I hope this helps

That's extremely cheap for LED downlights, our normal downlighst cost that much.
I rang up couple of electricians and they quoted me between $120 and $160 per downlight installed.

Well, you get to save if you buy the globe & housing & and then asking an electrician or your builder to install them.
You see, if you ask the electrician or builder to quote you on supply & install, they charge you about 20% for profit ( I guess that's how they make business ). However, if you supply the globe & housing, you take out the middle man and save. As I said, we got good quality globe ( see reviews on the net for the Philips 7W LED 40 deg dimmable ) not just a no name brand LED . If you need the name of the retailer we got them from, let me know & I'll pm you the details as I'm sure there would be one in WA.

Sorry, forgot to add that there was an even cheaper one that we got quoted for that's American from memory called CREE LED ( I think they're around $35 ( Bulb only ) which is also a GU10.
I believe it's just as good as the Philips but hubby was deadset on Philips & we settled on that...

get conduits with blank face plait while building so that date cabling can be done later after build

Not to mention illegal if you are not a licensed installer. Love to know how you got it certified...