Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Mar 16, 2010 12:01 pm Hi Guys, I've been continuing with my research and wanted to see your opinion on the two products in question. With Solvent-based Polys (Looking at Polycure products) it is easy to apply, hard surface etc... On the minus side - all floor will scratch and in 5-8 years the floor will need re-sanding and re-coating, will yellow the timber, risks of edge-bonding etc... With Hardwax (Osmo Polyx or Treatex) - even easier to apply, relatively hard surface, penetrates and cures timber, does not bond edges, enriches the colour, non yellowing, only two coats required, dust and footmarks are not visible, no need to re-sand to fix scratches - apply on top and polish.. On the minus - minor maintenance will need to be done annually. Both timbers I'm deploying (Grey Ironbark and Tallowwood) are quite hard and capable of withstanding wear'n'tear load themselves so having a thick coat of hard particles protecting the floor is not that critical like with softer timbers.... (I think).. So, Oil-based look much more superior and sound like a way to go.. But... are they tooooo goooood to be true? Any feedback, please? ... built a Promenade with Clarendon. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=25104 20-10-09 - excavation and piering completed ... 12-04-10 - Basins fixed. Connecting to the electrical grid 23-04-10 - PCI 07-05-10 - HANDOVER! Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 2Mar 16, 2010 1:29 pm I use Osmo and Treatex regularly. I believe they are great products (I understand they were ostensibly developed by the same group scientists originally) The hardwax oils sit IN the floor more so than the polys which sit ON the floor. The hardwax oils have a much lower degree of toxicity (VOC). They wont yellow over time. They are dearer per sqm. They only need two coats as opposed to Primer plus 2 coats (minimum) I am about to install a Tallowwood floor which will be finished with Treatex. This is a top of the range finish on a top of the range floor - I believe. As for the Polys, I almost never finish with a solvent based finish. If I dont use a Hardwax Oil then I generally use a water based Poly - Bona. The majority of clients are stipulating non-toxic and non-yellowing finishes. Bona and the hardwax oils tick both boxes Cheers Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 3Mar 16, 2010 2:01 pm Thanks Mate, you've helped to reinforce my own thinking! A very nice summary.. So yeah, let it be Osmo (or Treatex - waiting for the quote) ... built a Promenade with Clarendon. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=25104 20-10-09 - excavation and piering completed ... 12-04-10 - Basins fixed. Connecting to the electrical grid 23-04-10 - PCI 07-05-10 - HANDOVER! Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 4Mar 16, 2010 2:23 pm Great topic! As usual, a few questions. Hardwax So, is the hardwax the only thing that needs to be applied? Or is it only an undercoat to some other top coat?? And is it in the same family as "oil modified polyurethane" (I guess not?) ? And is that the finish that needs waxing every now and then (depending on usage of the floor) ? Water based timber coating It looks like these are not mentioned here at all, or maybe I'm misreading something? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 5Mar 16, 2010 2:35 pm Lex, Take a look here (there are PDFs) http://www.thors.com.au/content.php?id=194 Based on info I've found so far, the quality of the finish is quite similar to the polys however, it (hardwax) penetrates into the timber rather than staying on it, as namtrak (and the Internet) said. My understanding is that minor maintenance will be required on an annual basis and not the same as the daily polishing-waxing required in the old days. An appealing factor to me is that this maintenance refreshes the existing coat and fixes scratches without much need to re-sand it. Water-based systems - I do not look on these at all. To me these seem to be a mere fad around the "green, eco and sustainability frenzy". Based on all those publications I shared here sub-forum, water based systems are quite similar to solvent based with the difference in the level of VOC (lower), yellowing (lower), edge bonding (much higher) and a few more. ... built a Promenade with Clarendon. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=25104 20-10-09 - excavation and piering completed ... 12-04-10 - Basins fixed. Connecting to the electrical grid 23-04-10 - PCI 07-05-10 - HANDOVER! Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 6Mar 16, 2010 3:06 pm Hardwax finishes such as Osmo and Treatex require the same maintenance as the water based polys. I always recommend clients buy their cleaning products from the manufacturer of the finish. Essentially the process if the same for both: Mats at front and back doors. Slide protectors under furniture. If possible, minimise the amount gravel in your yard (crusher dust). Wipe the floor with a dry mop/soft broom. Spray the cleaning product on the floor with a mister and wipe off with a damp mop. Never wet a timber floor. As for water based finishes, Bona (www.bona.net.au) in particular is I believe the most popular flooring finish worldwide. They have a few varieties, including Mega for the residential house and Traffic for the harder wearing applications. Cheers Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 7Mar 16, 2010 3:08 pm Edge bonding is the sticking of boards together laterally. The primer coats used by both Solvent based and Water based polyurethanes prevent this. The hardwax oils dont have the problem at all. Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 8Mar 16, 2010 4:24 pm OK, ta. I heard that water based finish is lots more expensive than the "traditional" polyurethane finish. Any comments on that? Again re. Mega by Bona - so is that all that's needed to complete the boards, or is that only a sealer (undercoat)? If that is only a sealer, what should be used as the top coating? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 9Mar 16, 2010 4:36 pm I think I've just found my answer to that ... so ... Bona has products to be used either as primers or as finishing coats. Mega is a waterborne polyurethane timber floor finish and is available in 3 sheen levels. Mega needs a primer, eg. Prime Intense or Classic. Mega is still 100% polyurethane. My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 10Mar 16, 2010 5:22 pm Bona has a sealer as its first coat then two coats of the main product. As for cost - very roughly : Hardwax Oils (two coats) $7 per sqm finished Water based Poly (three coats - incl primer) $6 per sqm finished Solvent based Poly (three coats - incl primer) $3 per sqm finished Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 14May 20, 2010 6:21 pm I haven't had problems with stains in either water based finishes or the hardwax oils as yet. But that may just mean clients havent rung me to tell me about the problem. I am about to do a mailout to old clients to seek feedback regarding the state of their floors - will post the results back here if you like Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 16May 26, 2010 10:16 am Hi namtrack, how are you going with the survey? BTW, if we apply a sealer (for Bona water based finish), shouldn't it soak in and prevent edge bonding? Just found this new product (quote from http://www.specifier.com.au/articles/45974/A-New-Era-in-Floor-Finishes-Say-Goodbye-to-Edge-Bonding.html) : "Era Polymers have developed a new polyurethane floor coating, making edge bonding an issue of the past. ERACOAT Timber Release is a new single pack moisture curing polyurethane floor finishing system that does not glue timbers together. In other words, it has all the strength and durability of polyurethane systems, but completely eliminates the risk of edge bonding. ERACOAT Timber Release is easy to apply, and is available as a Gloss or Satin finish. ERACOAT Timber Release can be used on new or old interior timber, cork, particleboard and even concrete floors, so there is no need to stock up on a whole range of specialist floor coatings that still leave you at risk of edge bonding. It’s a new era in polyurethane floor coating!" Has anyone heard of or used this? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 17May 26, 2010 3:05 pm The Bona sealer is primarily to prevent edge bonding. I have never had an issue with edgebonding using either Bona or Treatex/Osmo The moisture cured products are the ones with higher toxicity levels - the stinky finish where you need to stay out of the house for a few days Haven't started my little feedback survey yet, will let you know when I do. Cheers Re: Floor Finishes - Solvent-based Poly vs Oil Hardwax 19May 31, 2010 2:33 pm I think the specs say 3-4 days? Should be somewhere on their website, or on the empty bottles in my car. Basically you can soft foot it across the floor after it has become better than tack dry (say 6-12 hours) this depends a lot on humidity and room temp. As for furniture I tell clients they are okay to PLACE furniture in place after 24 hours. 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