Browse Forums Pools & Spas 1 Jun 10, 2016 6:46 am Hi guys, Not sure if anyone has done this or has any experience. We had 9x4m underground fibreglass pool installed prior to the building the house almost an year ago. The pool was boarded up and a temp fence put around it. We've finished the build and when the pool company came back to commission the pool, we identified it was leaking and was out of balance. The pool company is trying to wiggle out of fixing this issue at their expense and are claiming the damage was done to a pipe that was going towards the future pool heater underground during the building works. We are in dispute and will probably end up in FT. We had an independent structural engineer visit the site and confirmed we are out by almost 36mm on the 4m side and 46mm on the 9m side. He said once we fix the leak and it all dries up the pool can function as is. He said we can also attempt to lift the pool but in some cases he has seen more damage being done by trying to lift the pool. We are also getting a independent leak detector to come and check inside of the pool and the pipes. Any advice on if we should attempt to get the pool lifted (at our cost or the pool company's cost) will much appreciated. viewtopic.php?t=78985 Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 2Jun 10, 2016 7:28 am Also if anyone knows of a reputable and reliable company we can engage to get the pool rectified please provide suggestions. Given my experience todate, if I have to fix this at my cost, then I'd rather engage someone else than the pool company we are using. Our experience to date has been horrible. Thanks again viewtopic.php?t=78985 Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 3Jun 10, 2016 8:30 am Hi Franky I took a quick look at your build lovely home Better photos would have helped? BTW.. You don't realise you've taken the wrong photos until something goes wrong..by then it's usually too late my2c Franky40 Also if anyone knows of a reputable and reliable company we can engage to get the pool rectified please provide suggestions. I fear if you arrange someone else to do any remedial work yourself you may void the warranty,so you will need to get legal advice. Franky40 Given my experience todate, if I have to fix this at my cost, then I'd rather engage someone else than the pool company we are using. Our experience to date has been horrible. Thanks again Normally clients would employ the engineer who specifies the site works for the house design to specify soil compaction around the pool as well. I've found some pool companies specifications in recommending the use of a hand vibrator totally inadequate particularly if you intend to place (polished) concrete adjacent... that's another story I suspect the settlement has cause the pipes to crack, did you check the class pipe used, joints & notice any faulty pipe below ground installation. You will need to gather evidence and build up a compelling case against the pool guy..... ie, Photos, Data, engineering calcs,proofs & simulations. Engineers will match the photos with the simulations...see below. goodluck Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 4Jun 10, 2016 9:39 am Did your engineer specify why the pool was out of level, whether it subsided or heaved, and whats' the point of having engineer if he cannot give you advice how to fix it and you have to ask on this forum after you paid him. You don't need engineering qualifications to establish that the pool is out of level, you simply measure pool side to water level. Contractually you have issues because there are two builders on the job and each will blame the other, pool builder is already blaming you for the broken pipe. I have had a similar issue and argued in VCAT pool shell should be replaced, my evidence prevailed. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 5Jun 10, 2016 10:18 am Thanks StructuralBIM guy and building expert. I am waiting on the engineers report. Hopefully it will give me some options.
The pool have sunken in on one side. My concern is I don't want to cause more damage by trying to lift and level it. As long as we stop the leak and stabilise the pool, if the pool is ok to be used as is, then I am considering just using the coping to fix the levelling so it does not look too bad. When the pool was installed my husband was onsite and and for his untrained eye he did not see any issues with the pipe or plumbing. However the installer had issues with the Hydro Static valve and struggled to fit it. In the end he managed to fix it. Now when the pool technician came out to inspect the pool he put a bag with weight on top of the valve. We have seen a bit of reduction in the water leaking after that. However now the pool company is completely silent on the potentially the hydro static valve being faulty. When the company came to site to inspect with their pool leak detection guy, they did not even dive into the pool. They just tested the pipes. We went with a project home builder so did not engage an engineer for the site directly. We may or may not have a case, the sense I am getting is, it's going to be hard to prove one way or the other. It's going to take a lot of time and money to fight this out. With regards to their warranty, I don't think it's worth the paper it's on. What I have learnt is unless you are dealing with a reputable company they can turn the story around to point the blame on you. This company takes zero ownership for any mistake or issues. Some more photos Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 6Jun 10, 2016 10:39 am Franky40 Thanks StructuralBIM guy and building expert. I am waiting on the engineers report. Hopefully it will give me some options. The pool have sunken in on one side. My concern is I don't want to cause more damage by trying to lift and level it. As long as we stop the leak and stabilise the pool, if the pool is ok to be used as is, then I am considering just using the coping to fix the levelling so it does not look too bad. When the pool was installed my husband was onsite and and for his untrained eye he did not see any issues with the pipe or plumbing. However the installer had issues with the Hydro Static valve and struggled to fit it. In the end he managed to fix it. Now when the pool technician came out to inspect the pool he put a bag with weight on top of the valve. We have seen a bit of reduction in the water leaking after that. However now the pool company is completely silent on the potentially the hydro static valve being faulty. When the company came to site to inspect with their pool leak detection guy, they did not even dive into the pool. They just tested the pipes. We went with a project home builder so did not engage an engineer for the site directly. We may or may not have a case, the sense I am getting is, it's going to be hard to prove one way or the other. It's going to take a lot of time and money to fight this out. With regards to their warranty, I don't think it's worth the paper it's on. What I have learnt is unless you are dealing with a reputable company they can turn the story around to point the blame on you. This company takes zero ownership for any mistake or issues. Some more photos Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ viewtopic.php?t=78985 Hopefully it want take to long for someone to own up to liability. ... Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 7Jun 10, 2016 11:06 am I can tell you from looking at your photos that flooding around pool is not a good building practice and against engineering recommendations. If this was slab on ground on reactive soil it would cause heave. I have seen pools with heave so I am curious why you maintain its subsidence. No one is going to willingly own up to this so unless you do something about it (and it may get worse) it will be your loss. Not trying to be bad messenger, just experience talking. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 8Jun 10, 2016 11:33 am building-expert I can tell you from looking at your photos that flooding around pool is not a good building practice and against engineering recommendations. If this was slab on ground on reactive soil it would cause heave. I have seen pools with heave so I am curious why you maintain its subsidence. No one is going to willingly own up to this so unless you do something about it (and it may get worse) it will be your loss. Not trying to be bad messenger, just experience talking. Thanks building expert. Our soil was considered moderate (our house slab was a M class slab) not sure if that helps. Anyway I will wait for the engineering report and the divers report and take it from there. I have spoken to fair trading already. viewtopic.php?t=78985 Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 9Jun 10, 2016 11:53 am Franky40 building-expert I can tell you from looking at your photos that flooding around pool is not a good building practice and against engineering recommendations. If this was slab on ground on reactive soil it would cause heave. I have seen pools with heave so I am curious why you maintain its subsidence. No one is going to willingly own up to this so unless you do something about it (and it may get worse) it will be your loss. Not trying to be bad messenger, just experience talking. Thanks building expert. Our soil was considered moderate (our house slab was a M class slab) not sure if that helps. Anyway I will wait for the engineering report and the divers report and take it from there. I have spoken to fair trading already. viewtopic.php?t=78985 I forgot to mention first time around that there is a real danger of your pool collapsing inward/upward if water in your pool excavation causes soil around pool to liquefy.If that happens hydrostatic pressure from liquid soil in ,that is 2.5 times greater than from water pushing out will cause sides to bow in and bottom to bow up(I have seen it several times). While you are waiting for the report I would be doing everything to dewater pool excavation as a matter of urgency (this should have been verbal advice from your engineer). Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 10Jun 10, 2016 12:21 pm We have been using a pump to drain the water away from the pool (around the surface) the photos posted was a earlier in the week straight after the heavy rains in Sydney. So far we can't see any visual bowing of the sides or the bottom. When you say dewater the pool excavation are you suggesting we do something more than pumping the surface water away? Apologies if these are dump questions viewtopic.php?t=78985 Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 11Jun 10, 2016 12:30 pm Franky40 We have been using a pump to drain the water away from the pool (around the surface) the photos posted was a earlier in the week straight after the heavy rains in Sydney. So far we can't see any visual bowing of the sides or the bottom. When you say dewater the pool excavation are you suggesting we do something more than pumping the surface water away? viewtopic.php?t=78985 Yes you need to dig a sump all the way down at deepest end and have auto pump keeping water out of the pool excavation, otherwise you run the risk of soil liquefaction. this is what I mean, photo tells a thousand words Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ [/URL] Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 12Jun 10, 2016 12:37 pm Omg that's scary. Thank you for your help, patience and answering all my questions. viewtopic.php?t=78985 Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 13Jun 10, 2016 12:42 pm Franky40 Omg that's scary. Thank you for your help, patience and answering all my questions. viewtopic.php?t=78985 It's my pleasure and good luck! Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 14Jun 10, 2016 3:37 pm Hi Franky Thanks for the photos and up date The main issues are the ponding of the water along the pool edge and the possibility of a faulty hydrostatic valve. Unfortunately the concrete coping round the edge also complicates matters regarding lifting and its showing signs of stress cracks your engineer will advise you accordingly of the cause, effects & remedies. Just curious how long has the pool been filled? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 15Jun 10, 2016 4:33 pm StructuralBIMGuy Hi Franky Thanks for the photos and up date The main issues are the ponding of the water along the pool edge and the possibility of a faulty hydrostatic valve. Unfortunately the concrete coping round the edge also complicates matters regarding lifting and its showing signs of stress cracks your engineer will advise you accordingly of the cause, effects & remedies. Just curious how long has the pool been filled? It's been filled almost an year. Because we had limited access to the back post the house build. The pool company installed the shell, poured the bond beam and filled it with water and left it. We had a hard cover over it and a temporary pool fence. The house builder took on from there, due to various issues our house build was delayed by almost 3months. We had not noticed much leaking during the house build. We had noticed a bit of water around the pool but it had always rained the previous day when we saw this. The leaking really became prominent when the pool company came and installed the pump etc and start running the pool. Thanks for all your input and help. I will definitely be taking photos of not only the finish product but the WIP when I do any structural work from now on. viewtopic.php?t=78985 Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 16Jun 10, 2016 7:16 pm Franky40 Thanks for all your input and help. I will definitely be taking photos of not only the finish product but the WIP when I do any structural work from now on. Your welcome as an engineer that does structural repairs I can tell you no one remembers what was done 6 months later when its been covered, buried, concreted in,etc,etc Better still get a trusted qualified opinion before hand, take a photo, text, message, upload to the forum if in doubt, it only takes a few minutes & it can save you a lot of stress (no pun intended) Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 17Jun 10, 2016 9:26 pm Next to the skimmer box you have a stand pipe which will go lower than the bottom of the pool . Cheek the depth of water in it . Then get a pump to fit down there & keep pumping after out . I Venturi ( slurpy )pump works best . There is no easy way to level up your pool . It would need to be removed & re installed . If pool is out of level and stable underneath you could fix it up using a paver wit a 70mm drop edge. The question is weather the pool is stable . As a pool builder when you fit a pool then come back after the build you don't know what has been done around the pool by the builder . I have found the builders don't like having. A pool to work around and show little care . I've twice had holes put in pipes . I had another the builders used as a skip bin . I can understand the pool builders reluctance to accept responsibility without some evidence of being at fault . Did to pool sink or lift .It may be a chicken or egg thing . Did the pool leaking cause hydrostatic pressure to lift the pool or did runoff water cause pool to lift thus cracking or breaking a pipe . I had a customer call me after last weekends rain to tell me his pool was loosing 40mm of water per day . The hydrostatic valve opened during the storms an then got a little dirt on the owing so then the pool started leaking . A little knock on the valve sealed it . It will be very hard to get a absolute cause and it could be a number of contributing factors . This will make it very difficult to get money from builder or pool builder . Sorry I don't have a magic wand solution Cheers andrew Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 18Jun 10, 2016 10:39 pm wheeliworks Next to the skimmer box you have a stand pipe which will go lower than the bottom of the pool . Cheek the depth of water in it . Then get a pump to fit down there & keep pumping after out . I Venturi ( slurpy )pump works best . There is no easy way to level up your pool . It would need to be removed & re installed . If pool is out of level and stable underneath you could fix it up using a paver wit a 70mm drop edge. The question is weather the pool is stable . As a pool builder when you fit a pool then come back after the build you don't know what has been done around the pool by the builder . I have found the builders don't like having. A pool to work around and show little care . I've twice had holes put in pipes . I had another the builders used as a skip bin . I can understand the pool builders reluctance to accept responsibility without some evidence of being at fault . Did to pool sink or lift .It may be a chicken or egg thing . Did the pool leaking cause hydrostatic pressure to lift the pool or did runoff water cause pool to lift thus cracking or breaking a pipe . I had a customer call me after last weekends rain to tell me his pool was loosing 40mm of water per day . The hydrostatic valve opened during the storms an then got a little dirt on the owing so then the pool started leaking . A little knock on the valve sealed it . It will be very hard to get a absolute cause and it could be a number of contributing factors . This will make it very difficult to get money from builder or pool builder . Sorry I don't have a magic wand solution Cheers andrew Thanks Andrew, I am really hoping the pool is stable once the leak is fixed so we can fix the level issue with coping and move on. What really irked me is the way pool company has done very little investigation and concluded it is not their problem. Anyway hopefully the pool detection diver coming in can fix the leak. viewtopic.php?t=78985 Re: Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 19Jun 10, 2016 10:41 pm Pump out behind the pool via stand pipe ASAP . Sometimes the leak will appear to stop when under pool is totally full of water . In that case the leak detector won't locate the leak . Should we try and lift a fiberglas pool out of level? 20Jun 10, 2016 10:48 pm wheeliworks Pump out behind the pool via stand pipe ASAP . Sometimes the leak will appear to stop when under pool is totally full of water . In that case the leak detector won't locate the leak . Will do, hubby has work cut out for him this long weekend! We have been pumping water from around the pool, will pump it out of the skimmer box as well. The leak worsens when we fill the pool up. It leaks less when the water is just under the skimmer box level. does this point to anything? Thank you again for your advice viewtopic.php?t=78985 Thanks for the informative response! I'll feed that back to the site supervisor. 2 4236 isn't a garage level with the rest of the house a given? pretty sure they 'came around' long time ago. if you have a flat block, the garage is usually level with the rest… 1 17865 they can, it's a fairly standard solution when the slab isn't recessed. the falls need to be in the main floor, if it hasn't been done then you need to ask them to redo… 4 6772 |