Browse Forums General Discussion Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 761Jan 30, 2016 5:48 pm Within our company we have a little saying when we are talking about "design & construct" projects (projects where the builder is responsible for the design as well as the construction of a building, for those unaware). "We are getting the baggage handlers to design the 747 and then complaining when it doesn't fly". On projects where the client employs an architect, engineers and building certifier, gets them to design the building, and then retains them to control and monitor the project right through to completion of the defects period, there is very rarely any major problems. Design & construct, on the other hand, is always littered with problems. I am finding myself in the dock as an expert witness for D&C projects time and time again. Problem is, like usual, people THINK they are getting better value by bundling in the whole project responsibility to a builder. But they are not (usually). They are just getting a substandard end result, reflecting of the price they paid for it. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 762Jan 31, 2016 8:52 am 1960sModernistHome Within our company we have a little saying when we are talking about "design & construct" projects (projects where the builder is responsible for the design as well as the construction of a building, for those unaware). "We are getting the baggage handlers to design the 747 and then complaining when it doesn't fly". The new home industry is no different where the new home salesman (ex- car salesman?) sketches/designs the clients new home. LOL....same thing. And then the clients get the sticker shock in the office after they have paid a deposit. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 763Jan 31, 2016 9:07 am Never seen a salesman sketch home for a customer. Plans are already designed by draftsmen or architects in some of the boutique builders. In the case of custom there are draftsmen at the very least doing the designing/sketching. Sales people sell, the don't design, sketch or draw anything for customers. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 764Feb 01, 2016 12:48 am I can't even convey just how sick and tired that I am of seeing time and again on these forums that defective issues are because consumers don't pay enough $$$. Are you kidding me? We're the only reason so many are employed in the industry and we're also the ones who keep our end of the contract and pay the Builder in full. Only to be left with unsaleable damaged homes with the pricetag of justice exceeding the value of the property! And yet no one ever thinks we may have paid a boutique builder and got left with a budget nightmare that is far from compliant to any Australian laws or standards. Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 765Feb 01, 2016 8:24 am It's not that you specifically have not paid enough. The problem is that the market in general puts a far greater emphasis on price rather than quality, which then lowers the bar for everyone. Then we end up in a situation where a good builder is called a "boutique" builder. Then of course there are always the rare cases where people just make serious errors or where they knowingly disregard designs/rules which results in major problems such as you have received, which happens unfortunately. The important thing when that happens is to ensure that it is dealt with properly and rectified. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 766Feb 01, 2016 8:35 am That being said, the main problem that I see is when the party responsible for the construction also has the responsibility for the design. There is a huge conflict of interest in this arrangement. I always advise my clients that they should get their building/home designed by experts (architects/building designers/engineers) and then get competitive and truly "apples for apples" prices from a few builders. Then employ an expert (either the architect or a building certifier/surveyor) to ensure that everything is built in accordance with the certified design. This extra level of quality assurance almost entirely removes the builder's opportunity to de-spec or cheapen the design as well as adds an important layer of checking to avoid mistakes. In an ideal world we should be able to trust a licenced builder to complete the whole job, but profits rule and quality costs money and time. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 767Feb 01, 2016 8:55 am Slab Heave Recipient I can't even convey just how sick and tired that I am of seeing time and again on these forums that defective issues are because consumers don't pay enough $$$. Are you kidding me? We're the only reason so many are employed in the industry and we're also the ones who keep our end of the contract and pay the Builder in full. Only to be left with unsaleable damaged homes with the pricetag of justice exceeding the value of the property! And yet no one ever thinks we may have paid a boutique builder and got left with a budget nightmare that is far from compliant to any Australian laws or standards. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 768Feb 01, 2016 10:04 am 1960sModernistHome That being said, the main problem that I see is when the party responsible for the construction also has the responsibility for the design. There is a huge conflict of interest in this arrangement. I always advise my clients that they should get their building/home designed by experts (architects/building designers/engineers) and then get competitive and truly "apples for apples" prices from a few builders. Then employ an expert (either the architect or a building certifier/surveyor) to ensure that everything is built in accordance with the certified design. This extra level of quality assurance almost entirely removes the builder's opportunity to de-spec or cheapen the design as well as adds an important layer of checking to avoid mistakes. In an ideal world we should be able to trust a licenced builder to complete the whole job, but profits rule and quality costs money and time. As experienced design and construct contractor in commercial, industrial and residential construction I have to endorse everything you say. The lure of extracting maximum profit has no bounds for many developers. Recently I completed a report on chronically leaking building of more than 20 units. Although architects prepared original plans they were not retained so there was no supervision and no follow up detailing of critical elements. So the tradies on the job did what was quickest and cheapestfrequently not even following drawings. Even though slab set down for balconies was clearly shown on structural and architectural drawings it was not constructed. BIG MISTAKE! OP here has had home constructed by reputable builder and in blind trust did not have own independent inspections BIG MISTAKE! If you wait for government to protect you from blind trust you will grow old waiting. Get your own independent inspections Get your own independent inspections Get your own independent inspections Get it? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 769Feb 01, 2016 11:44 am Even good, reputable builders make mistakes. Good reputable builders from time to time might employ a site supervisor who is not as good as he/she made themselves out to be in the interview. Even experienced architects, engineers, certifiers and building inspectors make mistakes. Everyone does. That's why the additional, qualified layer of checking and QA is so important. I've been doing my job for a long time, I'd like to think I am very competent. But I make sure that every single project that I engineer is QA checked by another engineer who is not familiar with the project, and I have never, ever had a project get through QA without at least one significant error or omission. Yet, the housing industry, some states worse than others, allows the builder to do everything themselves in-house, from signing of the contract right through to certifying their own work at the end (especially the volume builders who have their own engineer in house). It is quite astonishing and in my view shows a complete failure of the system, and the biggest disappointment is that most consumers are completely unaware of the stitch-up that they're getting themselves in to. Signing up for a new house is treated in a similar way as signing up to buy an interest-free big screen TV from Harvey Norman. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 771Feb 01, 2016 12:20 pm Some education around this stuff wouldn't go astray in schools along with finances and money management. You know teach kids stuff that's relevant Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 772Feb 01, 2016 1:31 pm I'd go one step further, kids need to be taught extensive critical thinking. In today's environment there are companies and people all over the place trying to fleece consumers. From builders and developers promising palaces and delivering dog kennels, through to celebrity morons like Pete Evans profiting from hapless fools who buy into his anti-scientific health and medical advice - far too many people are being sucked in by complete BS. Lack of information cannot be blamed, we live in a time when information is literally at our fingertips 24/7. It's a lack of critical thinking that's to blame. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 773Feb 01, 2016 1:38 pm 1960sModernistHome I think we are pretty lucky in Qld that we seem to have reasonably good consumer protection, although it hasn't always been the case. You might like to tell that to the hundreds of people who have been to QCAT chasing builders to rectify their mistakes who are well out of pocket even if they won. Also the people whom have had to demolish houses after the BSA (forgot what they are called now ) didnt cover them for the full amount to fix sub standard work. I could go on. Dont even get me started on the myriad of cons going on in the real estate sales area. Some of Qlds laws seems to be tighter than NSW and Vic, but overall, every Australian state is still a quagmire of disinterest and corruption by the powers that be. Public servants employed in watchdog authorities, who fail to engineer a framework of appropriate laws and standards to fully protect consumers, are corrupt in their dereliction of duty. Nothing changes much in the public service. Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 774Feb 01, 2016 3:18 pm You are quite possibly 100% correct there, to be honest I have very little involvement in housing construction, my arena is typically big stuff. Which I guess goes back to what I'm banging on about because in most large constructions there is an architect, engineers, quantity surveyors, certifiers etc etc and part of their job is to ensure compliance and quality. But not always, and the jobs where the client hands over full control to the builder is almost always the one that I am attending expert witness duty in court. The QBCC has pretty good regulations in place in terms of licencing and so forth, so I just assumed that they would also have good consumer protections. The Building and Construction Industry Payments Act (BCIPA) was also a good initiative to ensure builders pay their subcontractors on time (in my experience at least). Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 775Feb 01, 2016 4:07 pm qebtel , but overall, every Australian state is still a quagmire of disinterest and corruption by the powers that be. Public servants employed in watchdog authorities, who fail to engineer a framework of appropriate laws and standards to fully protect consumers, are corrupt in their dereliction of duty. Nothing changes much in the public service. I fully agree with you, As a young QS on my second job I joined Vic public service and was told on my first day not to take bills of quantities seriously because they are always out. When I asked what the margin was 10%,20%? I was told 400%. Then I knew I wasn't going to waste my life working there. There were astonishing pockets of brilliance mainly in relation to immaculate management of RDO's, minimising appearance by every conceivable means and generally sabotaging what decent people tried to do. I once refused builder $40K in variation claims and adjustments (in today's money close to $1M) but builder wined and dined Commissioner and I was overruled. That was 40 years ago has anything changed? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 776Feb 01, 2016 6:45 pm Where Victoria went wrong in my humble opinion is doing away with only the Local Councils having their Building Departments approve plans and have council employed building inspectors do the stage inspections. They were strict and builder's made sure things were done right. That was me experience in the 80's when I was a casual builder's labourer. Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 777Feb 01, 2016 7:39 pm Ponzu Some education around this stuff wouldn't go astray in schools along with finances and money management. You know teach kids stuff that's relevant You are right on the money. Targeted education of future homeowners via short evening courses will deliver far more than millions wasted with ineffective CA. I am considering hosting evening lectures for groups of 20, presenting building contract, negotiation and around critical stage inspections. Information is power. Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 779Feb 02, 2016 12:45 am 1960sModernistHome It's not that you specifically have not paid enough. The problem is that the market in general puts a far greater emphasis on price rather than quality, which then lowers the bar for everyone. Then we end up in a situation where a good builder is called a "boutique" builder. Then of course there are always the rare cases where people just make serious errors or where they knowingly disregard designs/rules which results in major problems such as you have received, which happens unfortunately. The important thing when that happens is to ensure that it is dealt with properly and rectified. That in itself ****** the problem! As we are on the 79th page of this forum. .. over 35,000 views and 750+ replies. THERE IS NO RECTIFICATION to slab heave..... unless those in power have houses that are as damaged as mine there is no hurry for change. Meanwhile I meet homeowner after homeowner who sees how I have to live and what it puts my children through, then ask how much has the legal battle cost me to date without even so much as a roll of duct tape to fix anything. And then they say sorry it seems like the only real option for us is to patch it up and hope we can handball the defective property over to some other poor sucker..... and hope that it doesn't crumble down on them! Re: Has anyone rectified slab heave successfully 780Feb 02, 2016 12:46 am 1960sModernistHome It's not that you specifically have not paid enough. The problem is that the market in general puts a far greater emphasis on price rather than quality, which then lowers the bar for everyone. Then we end up in a situation where a good builder is called a "boutique" builder. Then of course there are always the rare cases where people just make serious errors or where they knowingly disregard designs/rules which results in major problems such as you have received, which happens unfortunately. The important thing when that happens is to ensure that it is dealt with properly and rectified. That in itself ****** the problem! As we are on the 79th page of this forum. .. over 35,000 views and 750+ replies. THERE IS NO RECTIFICATION to slab heave..... unless those in power have houses that are as damaged as mine there is no hurry for change. Meanwhile I meet homeowner after homeowner who sees how I have to live and what it puts my children through, then ask how much has the legal battle cost me to date without even so much as a roll of duct tape to fix anything. And then they say sorry it seems like the only real option for us is to patch it up and hope we can handball the defective property over to some other poor sucker..... and hope that it doesn't crumble down on them! Hi All, we are starting to think of building with Masterpiece Builders in Victoria, has anyone had any feedback or experience with them 0 13596 Hi we are looking to talk to people who have built with them recently. We have signed mid range built contract but identified that a lot of things are not included.… 0 731 I work with owner, he/she is my man on the ground and I instruct them when to visit the site and take photos and I have other tools in the bag. 4 15284 |