Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Apr 04, 2022 9:04 pm I am starting a new flame zone build near Narooma. I will try to give updates over the course of the build and share all of the solutions I find for the inevitable problems that come up for fellow Flame Zoners. So far here is the brief. The house is a brick veneer steel frame with steel roof on a slab. The certifier is satisfied with the bushfire construction specs that I wrote after dozens of hours of research into codes, standards, speaking to builders I know who have done flame zone builds and a friend of mine and my brother who are certifiers (neither are my pca) The design is engineered in conjunction with the NASH standard for steel frame design, the NASH standard for steel framed construction in bushfire areas BAL FZ design. If anyone has any questions about the project please ask. I may have a few of my own so any helpful responses would be appreciated. Re: New Flame Zone Build 2Apr 08, 2022 11:23 am Try concrete slab and walls mate, You can deal with fire and flood zones at the same time. Your local engineer should be able to certify code compliance. Current NCC standards are limited, you will require engineered Performance Solutions to AS1170, AS2870, AS3600,etc,etc. Post back if you require details/data Cheer Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: New Flame Zone Build 3Apr 08, 2022 4:44 pm Thanks for the suggestion. We have gone with brick veneer as the extra BAL FZ requirements are minimal when in conjunction with the NASH BAL FZ design. The Council and RFS have approved my plans so all good. The NASH designs were fire tested at the Mogo Hot Fire training ground just up the road. The beauty of this design is that the insulation requirements mean the house will require very little heating and cooling. Also it looks like a normal house so fits in with the other houses in the street. Now just need the rain to let up for a bit. Brian Re: New Flame Zone Build 4Apr 09, 2022 8:07 am Brianaurum The beauty of this design is that the insulation requirements mean the house will require very little heating and cooling. Also it looks like a normal house so fits in with the other houses in the street. That's your angle? If passive design architects are starving I doubt you're going to be killing the pig (Humour) When the new home salesman/builder tells home owners 1. Your design is an award winner? 2. We'll want to use this as our next display house? 3. There's a Thousand buck$ in it for YOU for every client you bring in? 4.5.etc,etc It's probably all a Sc@m LOL, those of us that have been around long enough know all the tricks (Humour) Brianaurum Now just need the rain to let up for a bit. Next time there will be no vote buying, politician pork barrelling handouts and insurance cover Think hard about durable building materials for when the rain stops and the flood waters go down. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: New Flame Zone Build 5Apr 10, 2022 9:20 pm No angle here, just a safe dry roof over my childrens' heads. I'm a humble person and don't need anything fancy. My site is not prone to flooding or stormwater damage so BCA drainage and site prep requirements are all that is needed there. Re: New Flame Zone Build 6May 12, 2022 4:58 pm So a heads up for future builders. Sparky ran the main from the turret out front. Called 2 hours later to say that they found a recent change to the reg that the meter can't be installed on the side of the house because there needs to be 600mm clearance between the swing path of the meter box and the fence/boundary. This means with the smallest box mounted in the wall the offset from the brick needs to be 1233 or more in my case. This reg is to protect workers in emergency situations. It would be less for non FZ build because the box must be mounted in an encasement which complies with the CSR fire rated external wall system or similar to achieve the FRL 30/30/30 rating required by AS3959 (as advised by a fire consultant). Essential Energy inspector said if the clearance is 5mm too small they will make me move it. So meter box is being mounted on the front which is not ideal. Apparently this is happening quite a bit in the cities where mcmansions on 500m2 blocks are common. My suggestion to future builders would be to allow for this clearance in the design stage. Brian Re: New Flame Zone Build 9Sep 12, 2022 5:34 pm domp Hi Brian, how is your build going? Any other info you discovered that could be interesting for future FZ builders? Hi Domp. The build is progressing nicely. I have fitted a few of the required items for the BAL FZ rating such as: 16mm Fyrcheck surround around the meter box - this has to be done prior to fitting the box and connecting electrical. 10mm gyprock shielding layer on frame above/behind top 2 courses of bricks. Steel flashing which goes above the eave cladding and below the bricks Bituminised aluminium dampcourse/bottom flashing. 80mm Anticon roof blanket beneath the roofing Aluminium flashings around window frames prior to brickwork. The pressed metal eave lining is next. My advice so far is if you are doing it yourself, plan a long way in advance for the FZ additions as they can't be retrofitted if you miss them. If you are getting a builder to do it, make sure they are doing these things in advance. Also take heaps of photos as these things will never be seen. The NASH Standard BAL FZ design is well thought out and inexpensive. The Bluescope frame is amazingly strong. Good luck with your build. If you need any info or have any questions, please feel free to ask. Brian Re: New Flame Zone Build 10Mar 12, 2023 5:30 pm Brianaurum So a heads up for future builders. Sparky ran the main from the turret out front. Called 2 hours later to say that they found a recent change to the reg that the meter can't be installed on the side of the house because there needs to be 600mm clearance between the swing path of the meter box and the fence/boundary. This means with the smallest box mounted in the wall the offset from the brick needs to be 1233 or more in my case. This reg is to protect workers in emergency situations. It would be less for non FZ build because the box must be mounted in an encasement which complies with the CSR fire rated external wall system or similar to achieve the FRL 30/30/30 rating required by AS3959 (as advised by a fire consultant). Essential Energy inspector said if the clearance is 5mm too small they will make me move it. So meter box is being mounted on the front which is not ideal. Apparently this is happening quite a bit in the cities where mcmansions on 500m2 blocks are common. My suggestion to future builders would be to allow for this clearance in the design stage. Brian Hi Brian, I would love to email you regarding your flame zone build and ask you some further questions about it regarding cost and design etc.Would you feel comfortable with me emailing you these questions?im new to this forum and not even sure if I’m replying in the correct way lol! I’m located in NSW in the Newcastle area for reference. Kind regards, Isabel Re: New Flame Zone Build 11Mar 12, 2023 5:37 pm 41968Daphne Brianaurum So a heads up for future builders. Sparky ran the main from the turret out front. Called 2 hours later to say that they found a recent change to the reg that the meter can't be installed on the side of the house because there needs to be 600mm clearance between the swing path of the meter box and the fence/boundary. This means with the smallest box mounted in the wall the offset from the brick needs to be 1233 or more in my case. This reg is to protect workers in emergency situations. It would be less for non FZ build because the box must be mounted in an encasement which complies with the CSR fire rated external wall system or similar to achieve the FRL 30/30/30 rating required by AS3959 (as advised by a fire consultant). Essential Energy inspector said if the clearance is 5mm too small they will make me move it. So meter box is being mounted on the front which is not ideal. Apparently this is happening quite a bit in the cities where mcmansions on 500m2 blocks are common. My suggestion to future builders would be to allow for this clearance in the design stage. Brian Hi Brian, I would love to email you regarding your flame zone build and ask you some further questions about it regarding cost and design etc.Would you feel comfortable with me emailing you these questions?im new to this forum and not even sure if I’m replying in the correct way lol! I’m located in NSW in the Newcastle area for reference. Kind regards, Isabel No probs, check your messages. Re: New Flame Zone Build 12Mar 16, 2023 10:09 am Hi Brian. I'm considering buying a block in a Flame Zone and threads like this can be very helpful - thank you. What are the main cost reductions you're getting by implementing the NASH system? What options are you considering for your windows and doors, as this is the biggest cost driver when building in fire prone areas. TIA Danes Re: New Flame Zone Build 13Mar 16, 2023 1:35 pm Danes Hi Brian. I'm considering buying a block in a Flame Zone and threads like this can be very helpful - thank you. What are the main cost reductions you're getting by implementing the NASH system? What options are you considering for your windows and doors, as this is the biggest cost driver when building in fire prone areas. TIA Danes We went steel mainly because some of the things in the AS3959 design were unachievable or hugely expensive at the time we planned such as trying to find vents that are BAL FZ certified, all penetrations must be tested to AS1530.8.2; also we are in a termite habitat and frame manufacturers don't coat the cut end of every bit of timber thus a free entry for termites. Also we didnt have to fork out $4k for a termite treatment system. Also in my mind having a combustible membrane beneath the roofing (layer of 15mm structural ply) seems at odds with what the goal is. There is absolutely no flammable or combustible material in the building envelope. Steel frame construction for our 190m2 house was $7k more for the frame than timber but requires a lot of screws for assembly so there would be more labour cost if you paid a builder.. We used BAL 40 windows $12k (this is not a requirement however the glazing needs to be 5mm toughened glass to satisfy the roller shutter BAL FZ certification. So we used roller shutters which cost $35k 250v motors with manual overide. They look great however if I knew I would have designed the brickwork above the window opening to fit the pelmets flush. The BCA requires minimum 3 courses of bricks above openings so we would have gone with option b to achieve this (brickwork right up to the rafters) We have a really solid home that didn't need cooling over summer and probably wont need much heating in winter. This is due to the fact that the NASH FZ design requires foil blanket, and r3.5 batts as well as r2.5 batts in walls. We live in a humid location and it is dry as inside. We used proctorwrap on the walls as a moisture barrier (even though not required in brick veneer as per BCA) No regrets. Brian Re: New Flame Zone Build 14Sep 20, 2023 1:41 pm Hi Brian. Where did you source your shutters from? Were they 304 stainless or just steel? The only ones I can find at the moment are stainless and have been quoted $115k for the whole house by a few different suppliers. This price will completely destroy the budget. Any information would be much appreciated. Brianaurum Danes Hi Brian. I'm considering buying a block in a Flame Zone and threads like this can be very helpful - thank you. What are the main cost reductions you're getting by implementing the NASH system? What options are you considering for your windows and doors, as this is the biggest cost driver when building in fire prone areas. TIA Danes We went steel mainly because some of the things in the AS3959 design were unachievable or hugely expensive at the time we planned such as trying to find vents that are BAL FZ certified, all penetrations must be tested to AS1530.8.2; also we are in a termite habitat and frame manufacturers don't coat the cut end of every bit of timber thus a free entry for termites. Also we didnt have to fork out $4k for a termite treatment system. Also in my mind having a combustible membrane beneath the roofing (layer of 15mm structural ply) seems at odds with what the goal is. There is absolutely no flammable or combustible material in the building envelope. Steel frame construction for our 190m2 house was $7k more for the frame than timber but requires a lot of screws for assembly so there would be more labour cost if you paid a builder.. We used BAL 40 windows $12k (this is not a requirement however the glazing needs to be 5mm toughened glass to satisfy the roller shutter BAL FZ certification. So we used roller shutters which cost $35k 250v motors with manual overide. They look great however if I knew I would have designed the brickwork above the window opening to fit the pelmets flush. The BCA requires minimum 3 courses of bricks above openings so we would have gone with option b to achieve this (brickwork right up to the rafters) We have a really solid home that didn't need cooling over summer and probably wont need much heating in winter. This is due to the fact that the NASH FZ design requires foil blanket, and r3.5 batts as well as r2.5 batts in walls. We live in a humid location and it is dry as inside. We used proctorwrap on the walls as a moisture barrier (even though not required in brick veneer as per BCA) No regrets. Brian Re: New Flame Zone Build 15Sep 20, 2023 9:29 pm Hi Brenton, Bushfire Roller Shutters in Gosford. Overall good but a few little dents that are not noticeable. They offered to replace the parts when they're down this way but I haven't had time to organise it. One of the motors isnt working but again I havent got time to get the sparky back to check if it was his work or the motor at fault. The shutter still works with manual overide. (Edit: just checked it, motor works to raise it but not lower it so It's probably just the switch - my sparky supplied the switches as they don't come with the shutters) We had a catastrophic fire danger called yesterday so the shutters were down while we were at work. Re: New Flame Zone Build 16Sep 20, 2023 9:50 pm Also the shutters are 316, the pelmets and frames are powder coated steel. No signs of corrosion yet. Re: New Flame Zone Build 17Dec 28, 2023 1:11 am Hi Brian, Iam new to forum, pls accept my apologies in advance if any of the below queries makes you uncomfortable. Congratulations and hope you are almost moved in to your new house. I am building 3 houses in FZ i blue mountains, just now got the DA and awaiting CC by 2nd week of Jan 2024. Before I start would love to seek your support in this process. My interest is on below for now and may trouble you a little bit in future for more info. 1. Can we reduce BAL FZ to BAL 40, at least it would help me to reduce the shutters cost!! One of my contacts told me the assessment happend on land but after frame I might be able to request for reassessment for atleast 2 out of 3. 2. How much more it costed for whole construction due to FZ for whole house? 3. If i may ask, how much it costed total for building it to turn key? 4. Any challenges during OC? Regards KISHAN Vamashi I will call you first thing this morning. 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