Climate data for Christchurch, NZ and Adelaide, SA. Sister cities and same architect!

http://www.weatheronline.net.nz/weather ... =160&R=160

http://www.weatheronline.net.nz/weather ... =160&R=160

Looks different to me.

Umm I've spent a bit of time in both places...... I don't think this could possibly be right.

Absolutly because Europe is at least 20 years ahead in building.
I know several builders who make this statement after working in Europe.




Not at all. It is you who seem to think that single glazing doesn't break the thermal envelope. The thermal envelope consist of walls, windows, roof and floor. Your semi insulation theory just doesn't make sense.
Why don't you promote tents? Since you believe that exterior temperatures
in Australia are just right for inside as well?

Actually most energy efficient builders from all over the world will comment on how badly our houses are designed. Your European friends have one solution. Your mistake is to think it is the only one.



I don't think I actually promoted the former nor suggested the latter.

Well in Europe it is used in large numbers and I know it works.
Why should someone play guinea pig with some semi insulation theories
if proven concepts are available.




According to your statements the climate in Australia is so modest that
you substitute insulation with fabric.






At least I have experienced bloody cold weather in both places.
I don't deny that there is not exactly the same but it is not so different to justify semi insulated house designs for South Australia.

Thanks for those. That website is good, but I was going to do that anyway. I'm more talking about things like how do you know which solar hot water system is better? (Like, which one will keep the water hotter for all year round). We had one in our house but in Winter, the water was never hot, so we had to use the booster which isn't good for the environment (and it was in the sun all day long). How do I compare grey water systems? How do I know what is good double glazing? How do I know what shiny paving is? How do I compare solar panels? I have a whole first home owners grant to spend on it, what should I spend first? I'll already have insulation, eaves, no oversized windows, no downlights, etc etc and I think that can all be incorporated into basic design. I want to know what I should do with the spare money I get from the bonus on top of that, but no where seems to say things like you should do this before this as this has more of an effect. So I've been trying to research it and there's no way to compare properly.

What makes you think you are being a guinea pig? The residents of passive solar design since the 1970s don't seem to think they are. The owners of homes on the the Aust/NZ Sustainable House Day seem satisfied. The occupants of the case studies in the Your Home technical home would beg to differ. Most of these houses look like everybody elses, they just put a little more thought in it than just whacking in a few double glazed windows.



Semi-insulation is a relative term. R 4? R10? R20? Is tripled glazed 'enough'? There is a difference between well engineered and over-engineered? For some reason you have to wonder why the half-insulated houses as you refer to still work comfortably?

The key to all this is KISS. Keep it simple, stupid. Easy to understand, Cheaper to run. Less to maintain. The next point is think low cost investments before high cost.



Your Home covers this topic.

The question is academic because all of them work pretty much the same efficiency FP or ET. The differences might work out to be 300 kWhr/year in savings or less than $30.

If you really want to purely assess performance, for a equal sized heater the higher RECS number for your climate is the most indicative of energy savings.

Durability/Maintenance related to how the tank is lined, the number of components, additional pumps.

Last thing to consider is there a bloke who can fix it who works nearby and where does he get his parts.



Things that can compromise it. Shading of the panel by trees. Lack of insulation of tank and pipes. You will always have to boost 50% of the time. Don't stress about this. A self sufficient solar panel would be possible but large and cost-prohibitive. People think of this as an all or nothing proposition. If half the people in the country had solar HWS, this would make a huge dent in energy consumption.



Anthing that recycles water for gardening is great. Lawns are very hungry for water.

http://forums.envirotalk.com.au/Househo ... t8107.html

I am not an expert but the cheapest and safest system involves not detaining the water for too long before distributing it. Keep things simple! My colleague bathes his two sons, jumps in after. Puts a hose into the bath and siphons it out on the lawn which is nice and green. The big green wheelie bin of water system is a similarly simple idea. The issues is using low salt/low phosphate detergents. Lists are easy to find on Google.




The WERS website gives comparative information. You want the lowest U and low air infiltration that you can afford. It's that simple. It takes in account glazing and frame type.


Can you clarify?


Unless you are moneybags, I wouldn't go there yet. Get your energy consumption down first to about 11 kWhr per year with other measures then think about self-sufficiency.[/quote]



Presuming you are in a mixed climate? The list might be modified for Darwin.

I assume you have both batts and foil to wall and ceilings? After this in order:
Think about where the breeze is and have windows that open to channel it through the house.
Insulate your hot water tank and pipe to at least 2 metres
Some deciduous plantings on the west side for summer protection
Ceiling fans for summer cooling
Upgrading to heavier close fitting window coverings + pelmets for winter
Awning/shades to the west of the house
Solar HWS
Double glazing (new is best but retrofit panels do help) if the house is too cold
Tinted windows to the west if the house is too hot


PM me if you want to clarify

A local owner of what kind of house you are talking about was always very proud of it. Two years ago he went to Europe and he came back "gosh we have still a long long way to go!!!"



Semi insulation is combining insulated areas with non insulated
areas Single glazing is no insulation as it is just glass and if you call that well engineered !!
Your single glass in insulated walls theory is so outdated and physical nonsense and maybe in 20 years you will promote insulated windows as the latest in house building while others have already moved on to something maybe even better

Baby steps. Baby steps. Your main focus is on heating/cooling and heating water. Fridges come next. Lastly are other appliances and lighting. Big water uses are pools, garden (a surprising large amount), washing machines, baths/showers. The double whammy is that in a drought not only are we on water restrictions that stop us looking after your gardens, but your gardens would otherwise miss out from a 'free' water with the rainfall.

Some things can be reasonably quantified e.g. Solar HWS. Others are ball park figures. Your mileage can vary. Home energy ratings can help but aren't 100% reliable.

Trust your intuition and commensense. If you notice there is an unexplained breeze in the middle of winter coming into your house making it cold, go investigate. Use a candle (but don't set your curtains alight!). Plugging a leak is simple and can make a big difference to your comfort.

However, if you follow the principle that if you try the cheap things first then you haven't overinvested if they don't produce as much of a result as expected.

The key point is during winter - get as much free energy in during the day (e.g. the sun) and prevent heat leaving the house (air leaks, insulation, curtains).

In summer - prevent the sun getting in e.g. foil, shades, awnings, vegetation, pergolas and get as much cooling breeze as possible to come in.

You may wish to take some time to work out which statement you prefer.

I will leave the readers to work out their own opinion with the hard data:

http://www.weatheronline.net.nz/weather ... =160&R=160

http://www.weatheronline.net.nz/weather ... =160&R=160

Thanks for that Dynomite. The link about the double glazing will be useful. I don't know how to clarify shiny paving more - a few websites say 'don't put shiny paving on the north side of your home'. What is shiny paving? I thought anything that would reflect onto the windows would be bad, but they just say 'shiny paving'.....

I was going to do those anyway, we were going to include it from the beginning before Kevin Rudd annouced the increase. Then we were like 'well, we have an extra $21,000, what can we do with that?' and so I've been trying to research the best way to do that, and haven't gotten anywhere. It is only $21,000 so we are limited in what we can do, but I want to do what is best for my $$. Everything I research is the basic 'allow breeze through the house, put thick trees/shrubs on the west, pelmets and heavy curtains that go to the floor, eaves, etc. I want to know if there is something else I can do that will make a difference, if that makes sense, on top of that, as I am planning to do the basics as it is.

Your logic makes sense. There is also a thing called the heat island effect. It's what you get in town. Lots of thermal mass - buildings/roads/concrete absorb the sun's heat and re-radiates it during the evening making everything hotter. That's why landscaping with vegetation is important. I cannot quantify the shiny paving effect but it would be worse if you allowed the heat to be trapped against the building e.g. enclose it, if it was quite extensive or you had no other garden. This is where all the science gets murky,



I see you live in Newman. I checked the climate data on Newman, WA. It looks fairly hot there!

If cooling is important, I would have a white coloured roof or else use heat reflective paint. I would definitely use foil for the walls as well. If you have fairly big east/west windows then tinted low SGHC windows would be the go. Your humidity looks low enough. Choices for a mechanical system in order of operative costs are whole of house ducted fan system, evaporative AC or refrigerative AC.

Are you building on slab or raised off the ground? Exposed mass on non-solar gain areas will moderate temperatures.

Check out the case studies on Your Home for houses built in similar locales eg. NT/QLD/North WA

Hehehe oops I forgot to say we are building in Perth. I'm up here on a FIFO job. We'll be building on a slab there. East facing block so we are widening a veranda at the front (or adding one afterwards if it's too expensive) and will shade the West wall with large patio, as well as there will be garden. We are putting living areas on the North side of the block, and will set the house towards the South side so we can take advantage of the sun through the North windows in winter. Also, we are considering making the patio 1/2 open so that we'll grow native vines up it so that in winter the light can come through but in summer they will grow over. We'd have a shade cloth at first while it's growing up properly. We're also doing all the basic changes that are easy to do as I've said before. We're also going for a light coloured (white or silver) colorbond roof.

Hi Mrs S
Shiny paving is gloss paving that reflects the sunlight back into your windows. It negates to some degree the effect of eaves. I works in the same way that reflective windows in high rise office blocks create huge heating problems for neighbouring buildings.

As I said I experienced both places in bloody cold weather and regardles of weather statistics single glazing is physical nonsense in both places.
You think your "hard data" makes a diiference between insulation and no insulation.


In 20 years you are doing what I, Eco classic and many others do now
20 years ago we did what you are doing now

Are you both a windowexpert and climateexpert?


What were you doing that I am doing?

An expert in comfort - we don't all have a thick woolly cardigan and a beard like you

It that case I guess you would be happy to define mean radiant temperature and its influence upon human thermal comfort (as defined by ASHRAE - American Society of Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning) who are a leading scientific body in this area.

BTW I can't grow a beard and hate cardies.

And therefore a temperate climate. Heating will still be the large component of your energy bill.

Looks like you have ironed out all the basic design issues out and without a large investment. Here is the time to tweak the window proportions (if you are allowed to) to maximise daily solar gain to store in your slab.

Get North facing windows up to at least 12-15% of total floor area. Avoid having too much of the top half of the glazing in permanent shade. If you can reduce the South side to < 4% but that can be impractical.

Don't cover too much of the slab with carpet. Preferably tiles or polished concrete on the North side living areas. The slab becomes your heat battery. The heat it releases in the evening will offset any additional heating you need to keep the house comfortable.

Here is the time to pull out the big dollars. At this point I would say go with double glazing - oh no I said it. I would do this far ahead of the PV solar system. This is only a personal opinion but I suspect for the same investment double glazing in your case will offset home heating energy use as much as PV solar panels can contribute to it. However, your windows should outlast a PV panel and therefore have higher market value if you decide to resell. I speculate that if the latest developments in thin film PV technology takes off, the price of these systems will fall and become accessible to more people. Economies of scale suggests this will make it an affordable cost-effective option. That would be a good time to embrace the technology.

You can continue to push North glazing and mass up together but then you will need to go with a reverse brick veneer or double brick construction. This can add 5-10% to the cost of the house.

I also hear there is a rammed earth company in WA who also provide cost competitive thermal mass walls or even completely project manage a new house construction.

I know of a Perth builder/architect who built his own RBV home in Albany. You can PM me for his details.