Browse Forums Eco Living Re: yet another rain water setup questions 3Apr 20, 2015 12:16 am 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: yet another rain water setup questions 6May 18, 2015 11:34 pm The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: yet another rain water setup questions 10May 19, 2015 10:35 pm The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: yet another rain water setup questions 11May 26, 2015 3:16 am 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: yet another rain water setup questions 14May 27, 2015 9:20 pm Question Time i have read you suggest pond hose and John looks like hes uses fire hose? but that appears to kink with tank pressure. do you have a link to the type of pond house you talk about? and would it be best to use a small section for all connections coming off the tank? ie. outlet to pump, balance line, low restriction inlet? or is the 40mm poly flexible enough? the plan for the bore tank (22000L) is sort of explained in the picture above. i will have 5000L minimum allocated for CFS usage that is the constant water height. i will then have a float setup to fill the tank with 10000L any time it gets to 5000L and stop at 15000L what i would like to do is any overflow from the rain water tank goes into the bore tank so i dont need to keep pumping water from the bore. my idea is both tanks would have a normal overflow but have a slightly lower overflow from the rainwater tank to the bore tank as to fill the bore tank when the rainwater gets full. this would also allow extra overflow capacity if ever needed. how do you suggest having it set so any overflow (with good quality water) goes into the Bore tank before overflowing out the tank? if i have a low restriction inlet should have 1 for each 100mm DWV pipe or can they be joined together? also in the picture is the Future tank (thats if i require it dependant on rain and water usage) IF i do require it is there a difference between placing balance pipes in the side of the tank (like johns setup) or connecting the 2 outlets from the tank together with the feed to the pump? (like in the picture)? would i then make one tank a settling tank. is the point of a settling tank where it is closed off from the other tank and only opened when it has settled eg. a few days after a heavy rain to balance the water level. the point of waiting is to send good clean water to the other tank without the sediment suspended in the water? so one would need to remember to open and close these otherwise it could overflow while your other tank is near empty... or have left it open and get the dirty water. what happens if the rain is too heavy and you are going to overflow do you waste it or open it to collect it in the other tank? is there a way to do this without having to open/close them all the time? Re: yet another rain water setup questions 15Jun 05, 2015 2:48 am Apologies again for the late reply. I am behind with my own work at the moment but I am making inroads and should be able to take a bit more time out from now on. The hose that John used was a rigid type that I caution against using. The hose did flex but it was caused by the Camel brand tanks distorting on the bottom wall when they filled. Camel Tanks passed it off as a design feature!!!, not how I would describe it. You can see a photo and John's comments in the post that I have linked below. viewtopic.php?p=1146540#p1146540 The hose that I recommend is the Clearpond brand Pond Flex. This is a black corrugated (on the outside only) flexible hose but the hose becomes more rigid in sizes larger than 32mm. 25mm metric Blue Stripe poly pipe is commonly used to connect the tank to the pump but this hose is measured as an outside diameter, the inside diameter is nearer 20mm. This size hose will result in a lot of friction loss if the pump is drawing and/or pumping water over a longer distance. If this applies, upsizing to a 32mm hose would be beneficial. The 32 mm Pond Flex is a nice size for a low balance line. If you also fit a high balance line, use a flexible fitting, particularly if you are having poly tanks. Never use a rigid fitting because poly tanks move. The low restriction inlet's size often depends on the maximum amount of water that is delivered to the tank during a major storm event as it also boosts the potential flow rate to the tank by being supplementary to the vertical riser that operates with less head. This will not be a consideration for you though because you have plenty of available head. Its purpose in your system would be to give any fine sediment a low restriction flow path into the tank plus there is the added benefit of having the oxygen rich water aerate the anaerobic zone. It also reduces the amount of water retained in the wet system's pipes between rain events. As a general rule, 40 mm is a nice size to use and the parts are still reasonably priced. Re the rainwater tank overflowing into the bore tank, a single overflow will not match the inflow capacity during heavy rain and this will cause the rainwater tank to over-top. You would probably look at manual intervention as the method of aiding the water tank's overflow and one simple way would be to have a balance line between the rainwater tank and the bore tank that could be opened either prior to or during heavy rain. You would fit a low restriction inlet pipe to each 100mm tee at the bottom of the vertical risers. The two WaterBoys shown in the diagram would act as a balance pipe if both valves were open because both hoses are submerged. It is the best way to have a balance tank system and the valves can be left open because water isn't being transferred between the anaerobic zones. Manually opening a low balance line flow path is most beneficial a few days after rain if the harvesting system is the usual poorly designed wet system. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: yet another rain water setup questions 16Jun 05, 2015 6:21 pm Thanks i appreciate your willingness to help even though quite busy SaveH2O Apologies again for the late reply. I am behind with my own work at the moment but I am making inroads and should be able to take a bit more time out from now on. The hose that I recommend is the Clearpond brand Pond Flex. This is a black corrugated (on the outside only) flexible hose but the hose becomes more rigid in sizes larger than 32mm. thanks will look into this Quote: 25mm metric Blue Stripe poly pipe is commonly used to connect the tank to the pump but this hose is measured as an outside diameter, the inside diameter is nearer 20mm. This size hose will result in a lot of friction loss if the pump is drawing and/or pumping water over a longer distance. If this applies, upsizing to a 32mm hose would be beneficial. i have 32mm at the moment and was thinking of upsizing to 40mm just for the long pipe runs Quote: The 32 mm Pond Flex is a nice size for a low balance line. If you also fit a high balance line, use a flexible fitting, particularly if you are having poly tanks. Never use a rigid fitting because poly tanks move. i wont be able to have a high balance line as its not recommended to drill into the tank above the one flat section on the base Quote: Re the rainwater tank overflowing into the bore tank, a single overflow will not match the inflow capacity during heavy rain and this will cause the rainwater tank to over-top. You would probably look at manual intervention as the method of aiding the water tank's overflow and one simple way would be to have a balance line between the rainwater tank and the bore tank that could be opened either prior to or during heavy rain. my point exactly if i had an overflow for each tank and then added an additional (overflow .ie/very high balance line) from the rain to the bore tank it would assist in extra overflow capacity for the rain tank if required Quote: You would fit a low restriction inlet pipe to each 100mm tee at the bottom of the vertical risers. i did think that but wasnt sure if they could be combined or not. Quote: The two WaterBoys shown in the diagram would act as a balance pipe if both valves were open because both hoses are submerged. It is the best way to have a balance tank system and the valves can be left open because water isn't being transferred between the anaerobic zones. Manually opening a low balance line flow path is most beneficial a few days after rain if the harvesting system is the usual poorly designed wet system. great that would suit me. hopefully i dont need another tank and can use the bore tank as my 2nd rain water tank depending on my usage. if i require another one i know exactly what to do. thanks i think you have answered everything now to fully understand it and get it from paper to planning and put into action house will be ready to start building soon as plan have been submitted to council. Re: yet another rain water setup questions 17Jun 05, 2015 11:31 pm Clearpond Pond Flex hose: Because it is corrugated, it has its own hose clamps. Friction loss: Friction loss is greater at higher flow rates than lower flow rates. 40 mm hose will naturally have less friction loss than a 32 mm hose but a 40 mm hose can move a lot of water and the question then becomes, will it ever be required to? Cisterns, the shower, washing machine and most taps are low flow fixtures whereas the bath, laundry tub and outside taps are higher flow. There are friction loss tables online that show the friction loss per metre for different diameter pipes at different flow rates. Accessing these charts lets you compare the friction loss savings at different flow rates when upsizing pipe sizes. High balance lines: These usually interconnect between the overflow outlets. The lower plain wall section on poly tanks are usually molded with thicker plastic to prevent flex. A couple of other things that you may have already read in other threads. Rainwater is naturally acidic, particularly during thunderstorms. You can neutralise the pH balance by putting crushed limestone chips into a meshed nylon bag or similar and putting it into the tank that the pump draws from. This is particularly advisable if you have copper pipes. Tethering a small buoy to the bag will allow you to retrieve the bag to top it up or further break up the chips already in it. Limestone chips often form a protective coating when submerged for a period of time. Placing an oversized piece of shadecloth over the tank's top meshed inlet makes cleaning the mesh a lot easier plus it prevents sunlight from entering the tank. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: yet another rain water setup questions 18Jun 06, 2015 10:56 am SaveH2O Friction loss: Friction loss is greater at higher flow rates than lower flow rates. 40 mm hose will naturally have less friction loss than a 32 mm hose but a 40 mm hose can move a lot of water and the question then becomes, will it ever be required to? Cisterns, the shower, washing machine and most taps are low flow fixtures whereas the bath, laundry tub and outside taps are higher flow. There are friction loss tables online that show the friction loss per metre for different diameter pipes at different flow rates. Accessing these charts lets you compare the friction loss savings at different flow rates when upsizing pipe sizes. i just thought bigger was better. and if it doesnt cost too much then i will upgrade to it. id like to be able to have 2 showers running at the same time with the washing machine or tap or toilet flush (irregular occurrence but would be nice if it could do that without too much pressure drop.) as currently i cant shower and flush the toilet or shower and washing machine or shower and tap without it being quite noticeable in the shower. ok so the pumps pressure of 1mpa the length of run (about 40m) 3m head from pump to base of house (i guess it should be 3m head at thats where most taps will be at) do i have to work out my flowrate/velocity? then one that is worked out i get a head loss in M but what does that actually mean? ok so looking at this chart http://www.polypipe.com.au/images/Flow% ... 2075mm.pdf also assuming i just use that supplied pump for now how do i read these charts? Quote: High balance lines: These usually interconnect between the overflow outlets. The lower plain wall section on poly tanks are usually molded with thicker plastic to prevent flex. A couple of other things that you may have already read in other threads. Rainwater is naturally acidic, particularly during thunderstorms. You can neutralise the pH balance by putting crushed limestone chips into a meshed nylon bag or similar and putting it into the tank that the pump draws from. This is particularly advisable if you have copper pipes. Tethering a small buoy to the bag will allow you to retrieve the bag to top it up or further break up the chips already in it. Limestone chips often form a protective coating when submerged for a period of time. Placing an oversized piece of shadecloth over the tank's top meshed inlet makes cleaning the mesh a lot easier plus it prevents sunlight from entering the tank. yes have read them thanks, more great ideas Re: yet another rain water setup questions 19Jun 09, 2015 7:07 pm unrelated to the rest of the setup. if i was going to gravity feed from a tank 2m higher than the bore tank is this enough head? and would 40mm rural poly be sufficient? or should i use 50mm its about a 70m run basically the bottom of the tank will be level with the inlet (top) of the other tank Re: yet another rain water setup questions 20Jun 09, 2015 9:53 pm Just run some figures through the flow rate calculator that i linked. Something to remember: It requires 4 times the head to double the flow rate but doubling a pipe's internal diameter increases the volume x 4. If you double the internal diameter and have the same head, you increase the flow rate by about x 6. I should get back to answering your previous post hopefully tomorrow night, sorry for the delay but I am behind with an urgent project and working every available minute. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Can a plumber put a tap on a rain water tank which is full? Tank is similar to one in photo. Cheers. 0 1668 Hi, does anyone have any experience with using Trex rain escape or EPDM rubber to waterproof a deck so you have dry space underneath. Popular in the US and realize that… 0 3436 Yes you are correct, unless there are outside works which form part of the contract such as landscaping or driveways, and importantly, the work delayed is on the critical… 1 3521 |