Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 21Aug 17, 2013 11:26 pm Mark me down as another Electrical contractor who also has all of the relays and gear needed to wire my house for C-Bus for nothing and chose not to. I understand people are all looking for different things in their house and it's their right to choose the toys they want in it, more power to you. But it is purely a gadget. The extra costs to purchase, set up and maintain it far out weighs the benefits in my opinion. But if you want it, do it cheap by doing it right the first time. All the extra cost of prewiring might as well go towards the install. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 22Aug 24, 2013 10:18 pm Home Automation is becoming cheaper and evolving from just lighting control as if was once known for because I'd CBUS. With iPads being so cheap now, having one device that controls lights, temperature, audio, movie distribution, surveillance, access control is becoming the norm and will be what the coming generation will expect to be in their homes. Everything revolves around their iDevices. Systems are very modular so pre-wiring for various components you may want and installing it at a later date is the best way. Lighting control is one thing I would recommend doing upfront as stated in the previous posts that pre-wiring is not the norm and will cost more doing it later, where doing other items that you pre-wired for wont. Sitting down with a designer who can map out in great detail what you want and costings for each stage will be the best move and will cement what you want from what you need now. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 23Aug 27, 2013 8:48 am if your looking to control your heating cooling remotely, Have a look at the samsung units. Their fairly well priced and come with a WIFI module that you can connect to your router and control it remotely via the internet. With remote locking and cctv, you can use bio metric scanners and you can easily remotely unlock as well. I purchased a CCTV system that plugs into my network for about 500. it also has contacts that can be remotely operated. I would also recommend highly wiring your house with Cat 6 data sockets. I have all my devices in the house hooked to the internet, with a server located in the garage loaded with movies. We Then steam any of the movies we want to watch to each TV in the house. Its Pretty cool and also have foxtel and all our PC's hooked into the network. Total Breeze Air Conditioning and Electrical - Based in Melbourne http://www.totalbreeze.com.au Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 25Sep 01, 2013 2:12 pm ChargerWA Mark me down as another Electrical contractor who also has all of the relays and gear needed to wire my house for C-Bus for nothing and chose not to. I understand people are all looking for different things in their house and it's their right to choose the toys they want in it, more power to you. But it is purely a gadget. The extra costs to purchase, set up and maintain it far out weighs the benefits in my opinion. But if you want it, do it cheap by doing it right the first time. All the extra cost of prewiring might as well go towards the install. I've seen people by half million dollar cars...... I want the best in my house and i am looking at all option. Thank you for the alternate suggestions but most of them only cover one aspect not all. Ok so i can get a biometric lock. Can I control my windows from that lock. No. At the moment I am leaning towards Z wave simply because it is more modular and flexible but i am still not against cbus. Where I am from Home automation is not abnormal and most new and renovated apartments have some level of automation. It is something I enjoy and if i have the money to pay for it why not. Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 26Jan 07, 2014 1:13 pm I have gone CBUS in all my homes, and again in our new house being built, we have gone with CBUS again throughout. I cant speak highly enough of it. I am not an electrician, but am a qualified CBUS programmer, and dont understand some of the previous comments of it being overly complicated. Once it is setup, just like normal 'dumb' light switches, that is it. It will continue to work without touching anything indefinitely. Of course, if you DO want to make changes, unlike a 'dumb' system, you can without rewiring your house. The smarts behind the system, such as hitting a button when my child goes to bed that disabled the ceiling fan control in her room so she cant touch it, makes it so her lights wont turn on more than 20% of brightness during the night, sensing her moving to the toilet at night to dim some hallway wash lights on, turning the toilet light on softly for her when she enters, and turning it off after she leaves is great. Having a smart, lived in house when you are away, having your house remind you things like which bins are out this week, starting heated towel rails, but of course only when you are home and not on holidays or away, and changing the times during the year for winter and summer... Opening blinds slowly each morning waking you up for work, and closing them all when you leave for work. It is just infinite in its possibilities, and if its programmed correctly, it is even more simple than a normal house, as each light switch tells guests what they are doing, rather than having a wild guess at a 4 gang switch in a bathroom. It is a no brainer for me. You can see other 'gadgets' we will be using in the home here. http://lorenandemma.blogspot.com.au/p/gadgets.html Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 27Jan 07, 2014 8:49 pm haloboy Once it is setup, just like normal 'dumb' light switches, that is it. It will continue to work without touching anything indefinitely. Of course, if you DO want to make changes, unlike a 'dumb' system, you can without rewiring your house. Until the relays s*** the tin and you need to reprogram them, meanwhile you have to turn the lights on and off by a little override button on the front of the relay (I have a commercial customer who has been doing this for 18 months now, won't spend the money on fixing it as they are he'll bent on pulling the entire system out instead) halo boy Having a smart, lived in house when you are away, having your house remind you things like which bins are out this week, starting heated towel rails, but of course only when you are home and not on holidays or away, and changing the times during the year for winter and summer... ] Which is fine for you as a programmer. But in my experience 95% of customers don't use the features of the system. They struggle because they don't know what they want the system to do and equally don't understand what it can do. Each to their own, but in my opinion it is simply and purely a toy. I have an 8 and a 10 year old who have made it through childhood thus far without having lights dimming for them and control of their own ceiling fans. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 28Jan 08, 2014 3:00 pm ChargerWA Until the relays s*** the tin and you need to reprogram them, meanwhile you have to turn the lights on and off by a little override button on the front of the relay (I have a commercial customer who has been doing this for 18 months now, won't spend the money on fixing it as they are he'll bent on pulling the entire system out instead) ChargerWA, I understand what you mean, but in 11 years of CBUS, I have had one dimmer unit go out of all of our projects and jobs... just 1! And when it went, we got the new one, scanned the bar code, put it back in for the client, and took 2 minutes to restore the backup onto it. Done. ChargerWA Which is fine for you as a programmer. But in my experience 95% of customers don't use the features of the system. They struggle because they don't know what they want the system to do and equally don't understand what it can do. In my opinion, if customers dont use the features, either they never knew what it could do, have never been taught properly or had it programmed so badly. I would say a lot of our work is fixing up electricians attempts of programming CBUS. ChargerWA Each to their own, but in my opinion it is simply and purely a toy. I have an 8 and a 10 year old who have made it through childhood thus far without having lights dimming for them and control of their own ceiling fans. I read a book once that was talking about electricity in homes when it was first invented. It was said it was gimmicky and a toy, and that for centuries people had made it through with lanterns and candles and survived. *grin* We all made it without the internet growing up as well and made it, but I doubt out kids would think they could. haha Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 29Jan 18, 2014 5:24 pm Frankly I cannot see the point of going near CBUS when Z-WAVE is so far more advanced... For example 1, you can monitor power usage through each point you put a relay on... 2, you can run everything back to a little home server which can in turn be backed up or remotely accessed for config changes/maint (no costly onsite etc) 3, have you seen the amount of stuff being released for Z-wave? how many companies are onboard? 4, Z-wave can take over remote controls of most aircon, so rather than CBUS having limited "it can turn it on and off" the Z-wave is fully capable of controlling most/all functions of your aircon (BUT, not those aircons that do not have a infra-red remote obviously) 5, there are plenty of Z-wave add ons (say you want to monitor/switch the power of something without getting the box put behind the wall? simply throw in a short inline power cord. 6, Z-Wave is a standard available to a LOT of companies, CBUS is very tightly controlled with very few companies involved. 7, can essentially be re-tro fitted into anything, anywhere, all it needs is to be in wifi signal range of the next device and it's fine (as long as it has power obviously) or that's the Gist of what I've discovered so far, Slooowwwwly getting a Manhatten 35 in Middleton Grange Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 30Jan 20, 2014 8:47 am MR2 Frankly I cannot see the point of going near CBUS when Z-WAVE is so far more advanced... And may be soon outdated. I gather Broadcom, Artheros etc are seeing an opportunity to edge out Sigma Designs with 802.11ah; if they get it together, and with their experience with normal WiFi, the days of Z-Wave and ZigBee might be numbered, as 802.11ah might end up being built into every router. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 31Jan 20, 2014 9:09 am Considering the large consortium of companies companies building for Z-wave they are not suddenly going to make the older stuff "not work" it'd be nice to get a solid standard for ALL the Wireless house gadgets, making Z-wave and Zigbee and all the others actually capable of talking to each other (scary) Slooowwwwly getting a Manhatten 35 in Middleton Grange Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 32Apr 30, 2014 10:30 am I agree that Z Wave is huge, but not much in Australia as compared with the USA etc. As for your points... 1, you can monitor power usage through each point you put a relay on... (You can with CBUS if you put a relay on each point as well) 2, you can run everything back to a little home server which can in turn be backed up or remotely accessed for config changes/maint (no costly onsite etc) (You can do all Cbus stuff remotely to its small network interface) 3, have you seen the amount of stuff being released for Z-wave? how many companies are onboard? 4, Z-wave can take over remote controls of most aircon, so rather than CBUS having limited "it can turn it on and off" the Z-wave is fully capable of controlling most/all functions of your aircon (BUT, not those aircons that do not have a infra-red remote obviously) (Cbus can take over any with IR control as well with its IR transmitters) 5, there are plenty of Z-wave add ons (say you want to monitor/switch the power of something without getting the box put behind the wall? simply throw in a short inline power cord. (Cbus has those as well called wireless relays that I use too) 6, Z-Wave is a standard available to a LOT of companies, CBUS is very tightly controlled with very few companies involved. 7, can essentially be re-tro fitted into anything, anywhere, all it needs is to be in wifi signal range of the next device and it's fine (as long as it has power obviously) (Cbus wireless is the same, using wireless for connectivity like Z Wave) Cbus doesnt pretty much most things Z Wave can do, but you are right, it is more tightly controlled, so higher prices. Like Apple and PC's. The advantage of Apple is things work better together in a more controlled environment, but the disadvantage is slower R&D sometimes, and higher costs. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 33Apr 30, 2014 10:40 am haloboy I agree that Z Wave is huge, but not much in Australia as compared with the USA etc. As for your points... 1, you can monitor power usage through each point you put a relay on... (You can with CBUS if you put a relay on each point as well) 2, you can run everything back to a little home server which can in turn be backed up or remotely accessed for config changes/maint (no costly onsite etc) (You can do all Cbus stuff remotely to its small network interface) 3, have you seen the amount of stuff being released for Z-wave? how many companies are onboard? 4, Z-wave can take over remote controls of most aircon, so rather than CBUS having limited "it can turn it on and off" the Z-wave is fully capable of controlling most/all functions of your aircon (BUT, not those aircons that do not have a infra-red remote obviously) (Cbus can take over any with IR control as well with its IR transmitters) 5, there are plenty of Z-wave add ons (say you want to monitor/switch the power of something without getting the box put behind the wall? simply throw in a short inline power cord. (Cbus has those as well called wireless relays that I use too) 6, Z-Wave is a standard available to a LOT of companies, CBUS is very tightly controlled with very few companies involved. 7, can essentially be re-tro fitted into anything, anywhere, all it needs is to be in wifi signal range of the next device and it's fine (as long as it has power obviously) (Cbus wireless is the same, using wireless for connectivity like Z Wave) Cbus doesnt pretty much most things Z Wave can do, but you are right, it is more tightly controlled, so higher prices. Like Apple and PC's. The advantage of Apple is things work better together in a more controlled environment, but the disadvantage is slower R&D sometimes, and higher costs. how much do the Cbus relays cost? I was under the impression they could not be added down the track and that monitoring had to be done at the circuit level, not monitoring each individual outlet? Slooowwwwly getting a Manhatten 35 in Middleton Grange Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 34Apr 30, 2014 1:45 pm MR2 how much do the Cbus relays cost? I was under the impression they could not be added down the track and that monitoring had to be done at the circuit level, not monitoring each individual outlet? You can get a 12 channel relay on eBay for about $600, although I got some for $300 - you just need to keep your eyes open - so that is between $25 and $55 per channel- then you need at least one switch, which is about $30. As C-Bus has the relays and dimmers centralised and Cat 5 cable to the switches it is a bit easier to pre-wire but you can retrofit and add on later. I retrofitted my previous house - the existing switch wires were used to pull the Cat 5 cable through and the circuits were extended to the relay location. My current house was C-Bus from construction. I installed the Cat 5 and did the programming. The sparky just wired the circuits to the relays. C-Bus doesn't have power monitoring in the dimmers or relays. You can log the state of loads and then multiply the number of "on" hours by a static power value for that circuit, but this is not the actual power consumption. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 36Apr 30, 2014 6:22 pm And what ever you do just get Cat5, Cat6 may as well be a scam, save your cash. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 37Jun 01, 2014 8:48 pm Whilst I don't have anything to add about cbus (apart from if you want it installed, it's your house, get it), I do think blind automation is a very worthwhile thing simply in terms of managing thermals in your home. Having a light/thermal sensor or even just a timer on sunset/sunrise type arrangement would be a great use of technology, for a house with a solar passive design. Prewiring everywhere for computer network cabling, and considering video distribution over network cabling (hdbaset) I would highly recommend - as well as decent ceiling mounted wireless access points for your mobile type devices. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 38Aug 03, 2014 10:18 pm paulw11 MR2 C-Bus doesn't have power monitoring in the dimmers or relays. You can log the state of loads and then multiply the number of "on" hours by a static power value for that circuit, but this is not the actual power consumption. C-bus does have power monitoring. The system for whole of house monitoring, could be put on individual circuits or even power points. Though one whole of house graph of the day/month power use on a page of a wall mounted touch panel that the C-bus is designed for would be a lot more useful. Yes similar for zwave. I have c-bus lighting, all but the 240v circuits installed by myself. . I have tweeked with bathroom fans short push on/off and long push delayed off (led flashes during timed off). and found very stable and reliable. And while it is not currently very smart I am hoping to add the Wiser2 and my ultimate goal would be voice control. Why even have wall switches!! Many new devices on Kickstarter have mostly WIFI or LE Bluetooth some with voice control like Siri, that I want to integrate with my lighting. Add to this some IfTTT control and fitbits as iBeacon and that's what I call a smart home! Slab poured 21/04/2011 Frame finished 27/05/2011 Moved in 07/11/2011 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 39Aug 20, 2014 9:41 am For DIY options CBUS does not even get close to the options available. CBUS is just ridiculous on pricing. Anyone should be able to do their own "programming" . For any home automation it starts with cat 6 or similar cabling around the house. Either decentralised or centralised. Anything that needs electrons can be controlled. Pulpo. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 40Feb 19, 2015 8:37 am (I know this is an oldish thread, but I thought I would reply anyway) Ive had cbus in my currrent home now for 7 years There are aspects I LOVE and some I hate LOVE: Ability to control a wide range of controls from anywhere in the globe. From opening my front electric gate for contractors, to monitoring how low my underground water tank is that feeds my marine tank, to turning on the sprinklers on those hot days to keep the garden maintained etc Being able to turn on the AC system on a hot day when you are at the beach and on your way home is a god send Easy ability to expand, as long as its clipsal products or ness products you are expanding with HATE: Cost. I installed it because I had access to very good pricing at the time. Im considering a new build now, and Im going to look at all options going forward. Automation was very new to the residential scene 8 years ago, so I hope there are more options avaiable now The App. The Wiser app has barely been updated in 7 years. Clipsal are way behind on this. And from what I know, its not even available on Android or Windows. ts very concerning. If I lost access to that app, my whole automation system ends up being worth a lot less to me. Fan Control. Even with the new fan controllers, Id never want to install them again. They fail regularly and I end up with a very unusable fan system until new capacitors are installed in the modules. We didnt go cheap on the fans either, so its not a fan issue. Lack of Integration: Clipsal doesnt reinvent themselves. If I was responsible in their residential side of the business I would want to have a cutting edge application always updated with plugins where you could integrate with other automation products and security products (camera's etc) without costing the customer a small fortune. Bottom line is that if I was just installing a system for lighting control, I wouldnt use cbus. I would do as suggested above and use nice light switches with motion sensors and timers throughout, but if you want to push that pencil that bit further, then Im a fan, but Im not sold entirely. 2 11539 Hey everyone Not for me or anyone I know, just generally interested. For a single allotment house, are you allowed to take the fence on both sides of your house and… 0 21584 I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 11875 |