Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Feb 08, 2016 8:22 pm Hey guys So the huge downpour a week ago washed away some of my topsoil and exposed one of my stormwater pipes. I accidentally stepped on it and the pipe cracked! My question is, it looks like my builder has not used primer on the joins and only cement. I thought it was a requirement for primer. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Also I wanted to connect a wet system to fill my water tank. If they have used the blue non pressure cement will it be ok.. Let's assume primer was used in this scenario. Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 2Feb 08, 2016 10:02 pm You'll find 95% of plumbers don't bother with primer when doing stormwater as its not so crucial to be a sealed system. Its far more important to use it when doing drainage however. My build with FHBD viewtopic.php?f=31&t=78344 Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 4Feb 09, 2016 7:11 am Hi Crazyk, I can't answer your question about primer but I'm mightily surprised that rain could wash away enough of your soil to expose your stormwater pipes. They are supposed to be under at least 100mm of compacted soil. See below: http://www.vba.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... Drains.pdf As far as sealed systems to your rainwater tank go, have you looked at SaveH2O's Supadiverter? http://www.supadiverta.com.au/ You can hook it onto your existing downpipe system and it would save a lot of digging. Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 5Feb 09, 2016 10:17 am Hi again Crazyk, I find I do have an answer to your question from a very reliable source (SaveH20 alias rainwater guru) and it is this: Using primer on PVCu pipes is a manufacturer's requirement and must be followed. The purpose of the primer is to clean the surface and remove the glaze, ensuring a stronger solvent weld. Many plumbers take short cuts on the premise of "Out of sight, out of mind"...plus it is quicker. The standard 90mm PVCu stormwater pipe in the photo has a wall that is 1.9mm thick but it is the elbow fitting that has broken. Note that the VBA requires that DWV pipes are used for charged systems. A column of water exerts a pressure of 9.81 Kpa per metre, hardly enough to warrant concern should blue solvent cement be used on a wet system's pipes. Stormwater pipes and primer 7Feb 09, 2016 4:01 pm Thanks for the replies. Firstly my builder didn't comply with the cover requirements because they stuffed up my slab level. Slab was poured 200mm lower than approved RL. Even though I alerted them to it after the slab was poured they refused to investigate and continued to build until they slapped a "Stop work notice" on me at fix stage for not paying an extra $16k in PS for the slab. Not that I paid the PS but I had to accept their Stuffup to move forward. I only have 20mm cover in areas hence why it washed away. I'm accepting the premise that they followed the "Out of sight out of mind" principle based on the quality of workmanship in other areas of the house. Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 8Feb 09, 2016 4:14 pm Hi Crazyk, If the plumbers left you with less than the required soil cover to your pipes then the plumbing certificate is invalid. You need to report this to the Plumbing side of the VBA and they will issue an order to rectify the pipes. Are you able to prove you didn't change the ground levels around your house? Because this will be the plumbers' first line of defence. I know - I've been there. Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 10Feb 09, 2016 7:16 pm What has been in all the inspection reports? The depth of cover to the pipes? or do you have photos of the soil levels in relation to some fixed point that will clearly demonstrate that you haven't removed soil? Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 11Feb 09, 2016 7:22 pm I've got photos of exposed stormwater pipes and comments relating to concerns with depth of cover. There is actually a catch. You can't just put more soil on top to make it comply because that decreases my slab freeboard which then doesn't comply. Make sense? So my soul report says I need to maintain a 230mm freeboard. At 230mm freeboard I have less than 100mm soil cover. If you put more soil on to get 100mm cover then the freeboard doesn't conply Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 15Feb 09, 2016 8:42 pm Crazyk Stormwater is drainage. The fact they don't use it doesn't mean it's not right. My question is, is it required by law SEWER is often referred to as drainage within the industry. It sounds like you have bigger issues to be concerned with. Although iplex etc recommend to use primer, the fact that the plumbers haven't used it on the STORMWATER isn't a big deal and I wouldnt be losing sleep over it. My build with FHBD viewtopic.php?f=31&t=78344 Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 16Feb 09, 2016 8:44 pm Daz_ Crazyk Stormwater is drainage. The fact they don't use it doesn't mean it's not right. My question is, is it required by law SEWER is often referred to as drainage/drains within the industry. It sounds like you have bigger issues to be concerned with. Although iplex etc recommend to use primer, the fact that the plumbers haven't used it on the STORMWATER isn't a big deal and I wouldnt be losing sleep over it. If I step on a pipe and the join cracks then I consider that to be a big deal. Soil does put pressure on pipe joins Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 17Feb 09, 2016 8:50 pm Crazyk Daz_ Crazyk Stormwater is drainage. The fact they don't use it doesn't mean it's not right. My question is, is it required by law SEWER is often referred to as drainage/drains within the industry. It sounds like you have bigger issues to be concerned with. Although iplex etc recommend to use primer, the fact that the plumbers haven't used it on the STORMWATER isn't a big deal and I wouldnt be losing sleep over it. If I step on a pipe and the join cracks then I consider that to be a big deal. Soil does put pressure on pipe joins It would of still cracked if it had primer on it, the point is it should of had adequate cover. Up to you but all I'm saying is pick your battles! Good luck My build with FHBD viewtopic.php?f=31&t=78344 Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 18Feb 10, 2016 8:58 pm Hi Crazyk. The photo you posted is a good example of why primer is used when jointing PVCu pipes and what can structurally happen if it isn't. Solvent cement melts the two PVCu surfaces and the two surfaces then meld together to form one strong part. As Liliana posted, primer is used to clean the two surfaces plus remove the glaze. Failure to do this can result in the two surfaces failing to meld as required. The photo you posted shows one surface that has not melded...the solvent cement has not done its job because the required preparation was not done. It is a classic photo of a lazy and/or unknowledgeable plumber's handiwork. As you mentioned, the ground can and does have movement and even though stormwater pipe is not pressure rated or pressurised in normal applications, proper procedures and the manufacturers instructions must be followed. The common use 90mm DN stormwater pipe is very flimsy but this actually serves a purpose because it allows the pipe to 'absorb' ground movement. Many of these pipes, when dug up, are observed with considerable deformation yet the pipe has remained intact and so it may now not surprise you that most failures occur at the fittings. While the damage to your pipe had nothing to do with the non use of primer, it has allowed a wider audience to see a textbook example of two PVCu surfaces that failed to meld when primer was not applied. The following link is from VINIDEX. http://www.vinidex.com.au/technote-pare ... ure-pipes/ Some time ago, I also posted information about solvent welding in another thread, the post's link is below. viewtopic.php?p=941557#p941557 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Stormwater pipes and primer 19Feb 10, 2016 9:52 pm SaveH2O thanks for the very informative post. Below are other examples which show that the plumber didn't use primer in other areas of my system. You may ask why am I finding all these defects and it's because the join has failed and the ground around them was like a damp spot even though we had no rain. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Building Standards; Getting It Right! Thank you for the generous offer. I need to get the plumber out to give me an explanation. As mentioned I haven't seen any rain water discharge from pipes 1& 3. It… 7 11313 Grab a hose, insert it at the top of the inlet/down pipe and turn the water on and see where the water is escaping from. Then you'll know. 3 9044 Can you post your Architectural and Hydraulic plans so we can see how the system as a whole works? Without that no one will be able to give you any meaningful… 2 1206 |